Older Vigilant stove...Am I safe?

Re: Older Vigilant stove...Am I safe?

PostBy: wingnut74 On: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:13 am

I called them today and they have the front grille part for $40 + shipping. I am thinking about picking it up and trying to mod it so it would fit. I am also going to order some new doors, to install if I get that part to fit...
wingnut74
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Vermont Castings
Stove/Furnace Model: Vigilant II 0035

Re: Older Vigilant stove...Am I safe?

PostBy: stonyloam On: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:09 pm

Wingnut: take a look at this thread Vermont Castings Vigilant Coal Kit Install Manual photos at the bottom of page 1. Is that the part you are missing? Number 23 in this diagram http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/68/cat ... rence.html . If it is, that part does two things, it keeps the coal contained, and the lower front edge of the casting contacts the door gasket when the door is closed. This forces all of the incoming air to pass through the burning coal in the firebox. The older and new VC stoves are completely different designs. The vig 1.0 was designed to use a hopper and has a relatively shallow coal bed, where the doors must seal tightly to the insert, while the Vig II is designed to be more like a conventional coal stove with a deep bed, proper air flow is not dependent on a tight door seal. The grill is designed to keep the coal from the doors, but not designed to seal the stove. I am not sure that the grill would do what you need it to do. You might make some calls to VC dealers, one may have that piece laying around in the backroom someplace. Good luck.
stonyloam
 
Stove/Furnace Make: vermont casting
Stove/Furnace Model: vigilant

Re: Older Vigilant stove...Am I safe?

PostBy: wingnut74 On: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:46 pm

stonyloam wrote:Wingnut: take a look at this thread Vermont Castings Vigilant Coal Kit Install Manual photos at the bottom of page 1. Is that the part you are missing? Number 23 in this diagram http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/68/cat ... rence.html . If it is, that part does two things, it keeps the coal contained, and the lower front edge of the casting contacts the door gasket when the door is closed. This forces all of the incoming air to pass through the burning coal in the firebox. The older and new VC stoves are completely different designs. The vig 1.0 was designed to use a hopper and has a relatively shallow coal bed, where the doors must seal tightly to the insert, while the Vig II is designed to be more like a conventional coal stove with a deep bed, proper air flow is not dependent on a tight door seal. The grill is designed to keep the coal from the doors, but not designed to seal the stove. I am not sure that the grill would do what you need it to do. You might make some calls to VC dealers, one may have that piece laying around in the backroom someplace. Good luck.


Stonyloam: No, that grille piece, aka #23 is installed and in place. The problem I am having is that when I load up the stove with coal, the front doors will start to glow red. I think this is caused by two things, 1. The doors are warped and air is getting in causing a front burn, and 2. When the stove is loaded up with coal, the coal will rest against the doors, causing them to warp. I was thinking if I got that front grille piece off the VIgilant 2.0 design (viewed here #9: http://www.stovepartsplus.com/Merchant5 ... G-1400.pdf)and modified it to fit my Vigilant 1.0, I could keep the coal off the doors, thus preserving the new doors I am about to purchase.

Also, I have the hopper, but it is not installed. I got the stove from my dad, who warned me not to use the hopper, as fire could get into it, and then all hell could break loose. So needless to say, I have stayed away from it...
wingnut74
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Vermont Castings
Stove/Furnace Model: Vigilant II 0035

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Re: Older Vigilant stove...Am I safe?

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:05 pm

wingnut74 wrote:..>8|8<...Stonyloam: No, that grille piece, aka #23 is installed and in place. The problem I am having is that when I load up the stove with coal, the front doors will start to glow red. I think this is caused by two things, 1. The doors are warped and air is getting in causing a front burn, and 2. When the stove is loaded up with coal, the coal will rest against the doors, causing them to warp. I was thinking if I got that front grille piece off the VIgilant 2.0 design (viewed here #9: http://www.stovepartsplus.com/Merchant5 ... G-1400.pdf)and modified it to fit my Vigilant 1.0, I could keep the coal off the doors, thus preserving the new doors I am about to purchase.

Also, I have the hopper, but it is not installed. I got the stove from my dad, who warned me not to use the hopper, as fire could get into it, and then all hell could break loose. So needless to say, I have stayed away from it...


I never operated a VC with the hopper system, but if it's sealed up, the draft should never pull UP thru the hopper load. Something in the hopper assembly isn't sealed correctly if the fire is backing up the hopper. From looking at the parts picture, the hopper keeps the coal bed from becoming too thick and spilling over part #23 onto the doors. There's a thread around here from the past few months where a fellow rebuilt his older Vigilant, cementing all the parts in and the hopper system worked as designed (might be this one :oops: ). I can't find it right now to post a link to it. Check out eehlc's parts list picture and rewinder's door gasket fix. They show a fix for another common air leak in the hopper models past the coal bed. Rewinder also posted two .pdf files showing the older model's parts.
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: Older Vigilant stove...Am I safe?

PostBy: stonyloam On: Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:58 pm

OK I understand now! Peaburner has it right. The Vig 1.0 is designed to be used with the hopper. You never want the coal to be higher than the front of the insert. Filling above the level of the front is asking for disaster with hot coals spilling out when the doors are opened. Hate to say this but your father is dead wrong on this one, as said above the fire can't burn very much up into the hopper because of lack of draft. If the top is on the hopper and the little loading door is properly installed the fire will die out long before it gets high up into the hopper (in 25 years never had fire go high in hopper). Even with the grill to protect the doors you still will have a problem with the sides and fireback of the stove above the insert not being protected by firebrick, could lead to problems. If you continue to use it without the hopper, you should probably not fill it any higher than the top of the insert, maybe pile it up a little in the center of the firebox. You might try it with the hopper, I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how easy it becomes. I know you might have a hard time explaining to your father :shock: . Good luck!
stonyloam
 
Stove/Furnace Make: vermont casting
Stove/Furnace Model: vigilant

Re: Older Vigilant stove...Am I safe?

PostBy: wingnut74 On: Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:38 pm

stonyloam wrote:OK I understand now! Peaburner has it right. The Vig 1.0 is designed to be used with the hopper. You never want the coal to be higher than the front of the insert. Filling above the level of the front is asking for disaster with hot coals spilling out when the doors are opened. Hate to say this but your father is dead wrong on this one, as said above the fire can't burn very much up into the hopper because of lack of draft. If the top is on the hopper and the little loading door is properly installed the fire will die out long before it gets high up into the hopper (in 25 years never had fire go high in hopper). Even with the grill to protect the doors you still will have a problem with the sides and fireback of the stove above the insert not being protected by firebrick, could lead to problems. If you continue to use it without the hopper, you should probably not fill it any higher than the top of the insert, maybe pile it up a little in the center of the firebox. You might try it with the hopper, I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how easy it becomes. I know you might have a hard time explaining to your father :shock: . Good luck!


I had a feeling that hopper would become necessary after reading Peaburner's helpful post above. So here is my renewed plan of attack:

1. Order new doors w/gasket kit (Since my doors are warped from not using the hopper).
2. Install doors and make sure they are airtight against the front grille, aka. Part #23
3. Install hopper and load it up...

With the airtight doors, the hopper will then become safe and effective, and my dad will be very surprised. This stove has been in use since 1982, and the hopper has been in a box the whole time...

When this stove was new, it had glass inserts in the doors. With the hopper in use, the new doors can have the glass in them right? Or are the glass inserts a whole other problem?

Thanks for the insight!
wingnut74
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Vermont Castings
Stove/Furnace Model: Vigilant II 0035

Re: Older Vigilant stove...Am I safe?

PostBy: rewinder On: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:05 pm

haven't been on here for a while and been reading this thread again.

Everyone is correct in that the coal depth in the old gen1 Vig's is controlled by the hopper and any filling of the firebox above the "teeth" of the front grate is a no-no.
also when you put in the hopper --with the top "flat roof" piece with the square loading door, be sure that it's sitting low enough to NOT inter fere with the griddle closing tight on it's gasket. then when using it be sure no little chink of coal is spilled on the top flat roof thing, lifting the griddle when closed..
Why wouldn't you want to use the hopper, since it feeds the fire box/depth below as it burns up the coal. Also the coal depth should be only as high at the edges as the four heavy side grates that describe the firebox rectanglular sides. filling over these side grates will burn out the adjacent insert parts cause they are much thinner.

You can cause some red glow heating of the hopper adjustable throat if you burn too hot, with not a lot of coal in the hopper, and the damper in the straight up and out position.

this year I got a load of nut coal by accident that was really bigger than any nut I have tried before. In order to burn in my Vig, I had to raise the hopper throat pieces to make the coal bed deeper and allow the coal to spill out frontwards to neat the top of the front grill "teeth" It burns well, and I think it holds the set temp longer hours than the pea between tending, but is harder to revive an old fire due to the inherent shallow fire depth of the older vig's.

In using the pea coal in the Vig, the throat has to be lower because pea coal flows out the hopper smoother, and if left in the high position would fill to over the teeth.
Also make sure your draft isn't too high, the vig when sealed properly doesn't need a high fraft to burn well. A baro controls the high draft on my 3 story 8x8 chimney.

the heat settings of the thermostat handle will hold the same temps at 40deg or zero , wind or no.---with a baro-- with out it's harder to maintain an even high low or medium heat at the same outside temps.
sorry to ramble here, hope it helps you tho-LOL
rewinder
 
Stove/Furnace Make: VT Castings--early models
Stove/Furnace Model: Vigilant, and Resolute

Re: Older Vigilant stove...Am I safe?

PostBy: stonyloam On: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:45 pm

wingnut74 wrote:
1. Order new doors w/gasket kit (Since my doors are warped from not using the hopper).
2. Install doors and make sure they are airtight against the front grille, aka. Part #23
3. Install hopper and load it up...

With the airtight doors, the hopper will then become safe and effective, and my dad will be very surprised. This stove has been in use since 1982, and the hopper has been in a box the whole time...

When this stove was new, it had glass inserts in the doors. With the hopper in use, the new doors can have the glass in them right? Or are the glass inserts a whole other problem?

Thanks for the insight!


Sounds like a plan! :D I have been using the original glass inserts since 83, they are old and a little crazed but still hanging in there (like me). Rewinder hit all of the high spots (including the little chunks of coal that hide on top of the hopper :D ). Rewinder uses a baro with great success, I do not use one, and mine works fine too. Sounds like you are on your way. Good luck.
stonyloam
 
Stove/Furnace Make: vermont casting
Stove/Furnace Model: vigilant

Re: Older Vigilant stove...Am I safe?

PostBy: wingnut74 On: Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:49 am

rewinder wrote:haven't been on here for a while and been reading this thread again.

this year I got a load of nut coal by accident that was really bigger than any nut I have tried before. In order to burn in my Vig, I had to raise the hopper throat pieces to make the coal bed deeper and allow the coal to spill out frontwards to neat the top of the front grill "teeth" It burns well, and I think it holds the set temp longer hours than the pea between tending, but is harder to revive an old fire due to the inherent shallow fire depth of the older vig's.
L



I just got a ton of the Blaschak nut coal. Where would you set the hopper for this type? Most of the chunks are about the length of my thumb, and maybe a little but wider. I did read that anthracite nut was recommended for this model...

Also,does the hopper itself need to be cemented together? Since mine has never been used, it was just hand tightened and placed in a storage box...

Thanks again to everyone for the help!
wingnut74
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Vermont Castings
Stove/Furnace Model: Vigilant II 0035

Re: Older Vigilant stove...Am I safe?

PostBy: stonyloam On: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:40 am

wingnut74 wrote:
I just got a ton of the Blaschak nut coal. Where would you set the hopper for this type? Most of the chunks are about the length of my thumb, and maybe a little but wider. I did read that anthracite nut was recommended for this model...

Also,does the hopper itself need to be cemented together? Since mine has never been used, it was just hand tightened and placed in a storage box...

Thanks again to everyone for the help!


I just switched to Blaschak nut, have only burned 80# so far, but it is about the best coal that I have used. For nut, set the hopper throat all the way up (on mine the bottom of the throat is about 1 3/4 inches below the hopper body), to give maximum clearance above the grates. The hopper does not need to be cemented together. The hopper cover just sits on top. When you lose one of the hing pins for the loading door (it will happen) a cut off nail works just fine :). With the hopper in place the griddle temp will no longer be a good indicator of stove temp (blocks the direct heat of the fire). Place the thermometer on the little shelf on the far right hand side, toward the back. That way you are monitoring the exhaust gasses exiting the stove. I run mine between 300° and 600° F (most of the time @ 400°). That is about all I can think of for now. There is a ton of good info in several VC threads, should tell you about all you need to know. Stay warm.
stonyloam
 
Stove/Furnace Make: vermont casting
Stove/Furnace Model: vigilant

Re: Older Vigilant stove...Am I safe?

PostBy: wingnut74 On: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:44 am

I think that about does it! Thanks again to everyone who took the time to help me out. Now if I could just find some doors with the glass in them that don't cost a small fortune...
wingnut74
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Vermont Castings
Stove/Furnace Model: Vigilant II 0035

Re: Older Vigilant stove...Am I safe?

PostBy: rewinder On: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:25 pm

LOL stony took the words right of my mouth!!!

good luck and happy burning!

I have some solid cast iron, glass shaped inserts, from the old days, in case a glass pane breaks.

Wait, they may be for the resolute, I don't remember, and never used them.
rewinder
 
Stove/Furnace Make: VT Castings--early models
Stove/Furnace Model: Vigilant, and Resolute

Re: Older Vigilant stove...Am I safe?

PostBy: wingnut74 On: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:36 pm

rewinder wrote:the heat settings of the thermostat handle will hold the same temps at 40deg or zero , wind or no.---with a baro-- with out it's harder to maintain an even high low or medium heat at the same outside temps.
sorry to ramble here, hope it helps you tho-LOL


Rewinder,

What type of baro are you running? I picked up another Vig I this summer and once I get another coal kit, she's going to get installed into my basement. Wouldn't mind trying a baro since I do seem to be fighting to keep a consistent heat flow.
wingnut74
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Vermont Castings
Stove/Furnace Model: Vigilant II 0035

Re: Older Vigilant stove...Am I safe?

PostBy: rewinder On: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:02 am

hey there

i don't know what type the baro is, it's a fields, for solid or oil i think, I got it at a local plumbing supply house, same kind as on my oil fired boiler

Look in craigs list, i scores a complete, unused, spare coal kit for my Vig and resolute stoves this summer, for spares, 50 and 100 bucks each kit. i couldn't pass that up
best part, is they were within 20 miles from my house!, 2 different sellers.
rewinder
 
Stove/Furnace Make: VT Castings--early models
Stove/Furnace Model: Vigilant, and Resolute

Re: Older Vigilant stove...Am I safe?

PostBy: wingnut74 On: Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:19 am

rewinder wrote:
Look in craigs list, i scores a complete, unused, spare coal kit for my Vig and resolute stoves this summer, for spares, 50 and 100 bucks each kit. i couldn't pass that up
best part, is they were within 20 miles from my house!, 2 different sellers.


I've been checking craigslist, but I can't find anyone in Michigan (or within reasonable driving distance) that has one. They are all out your way! I found one for $50 in NH, but not too many people are willing to ship them. I had a guy that wanted to sell me one for $90 + $98 shipping from Boulder, CO. I'll keep looking I guess.
wingnut74
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Vermont Castings
Stove/Furnace Model: Vigilant II 0035

Visit Hitzer Stoves