Attack on remote Afghan outposts kills 8 US troops

Attack on remote Afghan outposts kills 8 US troops

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:37 am


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9B48DI80&show_article=1
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


KABUL (AP) - Militant fighters streaming from an Afghan village and a mosque attacked a pair of remote outposts near the Pakistani border, killing eight U.S. soldiers and as many as seven Afghan forces in one of the fiercest battles of the eight-year war.

The Taliban claimed responsibility for the deadliest attack for coalition forces since a similar raid in July 2008 killed nine American soldiers in the same mountainous region known as an al-Qaida haven. The U.S. has already said it plans to pull its soldiers from the isolated area to focus on Afghan population centers.



more : http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9B48DI80&show_article=1

Godspeed to the brave defenders of freedom.
Last edited by Richard S. on Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Please don't quote entire articles.
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Re: Attack on remote Afghan outposts kills 8 US troops

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:44 am

Hear Hear!

I wish we didn't have to be so politically correct, & could just either drop a bomb on the whole place, or kill everything that moved....
SMITTY
 
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Re: Attack on remote Afghan outposts kills 8 US troops

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:30 am

SMITTY wrote:Hear Hear!

I wish we didn't have to be so politically correct, & could just either drop a bomb on the whole place, or kill everything that moved....



Have you read David Petraeus' book on counterinsurgency?

While in the initial stages of COIN, military actions appear especially predominant, political objectives must retain primacy. Commanders conduct all operations with consideration of their contribution toward strengthening the legitimacy of the host government and achieving the political goals set by the U.S. government. This means that the country team and U.S. government political-military staff must be active participants throughout the conduct (planning, preparation, execution, and assessment) of COIN operations. The political and military aspects of insurgencies are so bound together as to usually be inseparable, and most insurgent approaches recognize that fact. Military actions conducted without proper assessment of political effects at best result in reduced effectiveness and at worst are counterproductive. Resolving most insurgencies requires a political solution, and it is imperative that the actions of the counterinsurgent do not make achieving that political solution more difficult.


It's a good read. http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-24fd.pdf

Look particularly at page 1-24, successful and unsuccessful practices.
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Re: Attack on remote Afghan outposts kills 8 US troops

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:23 pm

COIN understood but the forward base in this case should have been heavily armed, massively supplied and overwhelming support at the ready. Pardon me but 300 rag heads should be littering the drifting sand and a retaliatory bombardment of every suspected mountain cave should be underway.
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Re: Attack on remote Afghan outposts kills 8 US troops

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:28 pm

Black_And_Blue wrote:COIN understood but the forward base in this case should have been heavily armed, massively supplied and overwhelming support at the ready. Pardon me but 300 rag heads should be littering the drifting sand and a retaliatory bombardment of every suspected mountain cave should be underway.


So you think General Petraeus is wrong in his strategy.
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Re: Attack on remote Afghan outposts kills 8 US troops

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:44 pm

Uh, it's a forward base in a known enemy area.

There is no excuse for allowing a frontal assault on it to succeed when we have superior and overwhelming firepower.

Door to door patrols against insurgents is a different animal, some one has their head up their ass on this one.
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Re: Attack on remote Afghan outposts kills 8 US troops

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:54 pm

Black_And_Blue wrote:Uh, it's a forward base in a known enemy area.

There is no excuse for allowing a frontal assault on it to succeed


The attack didn't succeed. The attack was repelled. The cost of winning this skirmish was 8 American lives.
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Re: Attack on remote Afghan outposts kills 8 US troops

PostBy: Dann757 On: Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:59 pm

I think I have problems because I have a shed to clean out. I want to take a minute and try to understand the grief and sacrifice of those soldiers and their families. I do not understand why they would be left out vulnerable. Some people may think a brief luxury celebrity vacation to Denmark is a sacrifice.
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Re: Attack on remote Afghan outposts kills 8 US troops

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:33 pm

ErikLaurence wrote:The attack didn't succeed. The attack was repelled. The cost of winning this skirmish was 8 American lives.


The reports I read said the base was "overrun". That would imply that the base was lost, or nearly lost, and secured after the air support was received.

Taliban spokesman Zabiullah Mujahid said militants overran both outposts, but U.S. spokeswoman Capt. Elizabeth Mathias said U.S. troops were holding the outposts Sunday.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091005/ap_on_re_as/as_afghanistan
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
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Re: Attack on remote Afghan outposts kills 8 US troops

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:51 pm

Dann757 wrote:I think I have problems because I have a shed to clean out. I want to take a minute and try to understand the grief and sacrifice of those soldiers and their families. I do not understand why they would be left out vulnerable. Some people may think a brief luxury celebrity vacation to Denmark is a sacrifice.


Someone I know was in a remote outpost in eastern Afghanistan on the Pakistan border for 4 months straight. All supplies were dropped in. He was involved in many firefights and he was decorated with a bronze star with valor for his service. That was two or three years ago.

We need more boots on the ground there. If there is any similarity between this war and Viet Nam it is only in the politics that are played with our soldiers lives at stake. The politicians like a war to look tough for the constituents but, when the going gets tough, they don't like the mess so they hamper the operation by pulling back. In the end they delay and it costs more lives and injuries than a massive and ruthless assault. War is an awful thing. It must be avoided at all costs unless absolutely necessary and, when unavoidable, prosecuted with overwhelming force and a hard heart.

I praise our soldiers for their skill, courage, sense of duty and restraint under duress. They are the best the world has ever seen.
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Re: Attack on remote Afghan outposts kills 8 US troops

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:56 pm

Again, HEAR HEAR. Couldn't have said it better.
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Re: Attack on remote Afghan outposts kills 8 US troops

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:00 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:
ErikLaurence wrote:The attack didn't succeed. The attack was repelled. The cost of winning this skirmish was 8 American lives.


The reports I read said the base was "overrun". That would imply that the base was lost, or nearly lost, and secured after the air support was received.

Taliban spokesman Zabiullah Mujahid said militants overran both outposts, but U.S. spokeswoman Capt. Elizabeth Mathias said U.S. troops were holding the outposts Sunday.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091005/ap_on_re_as/as_afghanistan
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


Um, so you are taking the word of the Taliban spokesman over the word of a US officer?
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Re: Attack on remote Afghan outposts kills 8 US troops

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:42 am

ErikLaurence wrote:Um, so you are taking the word of the Taliban spokesman over the word of a US officer?


I am sure the officer was telling the truth at the time. They didn't say however if they held the base earlier, just that they held it Sunday.

During the previous administration didn't the left call General Petraeus, General "Betray us"? I thought for sure you would find the Taliban account at least reasonably credible. Perhaps it was, considering this from the Associated Press in the same article:

Details of the attack remained unclear Sunday and there were conflicting reports of Afghan losses due to poor communications in the area....

A NATO statement... two outposts — one mostly American position on the summit and another mostly Afghan police garrison on a lower slope.

NATO said eight Americans and two Afghan security troopers were killed.

An Afghan military official... said three Afghan soldiers and one policeman had been killed in two days of fighting. He also said at least seven Afghan army soldiers were missing and feared captured.

In addition, provincial police chief Mohammad Qasim Jangulbagh said 15 Afghan policemen had been captured, including the local police chief and his deputy. Jangulbagh estimated that about 300 militants took part in the attack.


In order to capture or disperse soldiers in a fixed base, their position must be overrun. Certainly the Afghan police station was overrun. Perhaps with a wink and a nod. The summit base where the American solders were dug in may not have been. It was hardly a failure for the attackers and could hardly be called a "victory" as you characterized it. I'd say we got a bloody nose and a black eye at the very least. It is a shame.

One thing is for sure, the Americans are fighting hard like Americans always do. I am not sure the Afghans lost as many soldiers. One must wonder why. Too bad the soldiers don't have the support they need in that remote location and too bad the Afghans and the Pakis are dishonorable to deal with.
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Re: Attack on remote Afghan outposts kills 8 US troops

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:45 am

mikeandgerry wrote:
ErikLaurence wrote:Um, so you are taking the word of the Taliban spokesman over the word of a US officer?

I am sure the officer was telling the truth at the time. They didn't say however if they held the base earlier, just that they held it Sunday.

During the previous administration didn't the left call General Petraeus, General "Betray us"? I thought for sure you would find the Taliban account at least reasonably credible.


So you're accusing a US officer of being mealy mouthed and deceptive. I find the Taliban, like most religious fundies, to be operating under an agenda dictated by faith rather than logic and truth.

You seem to be operating under the logical fallacy that anyone who disagrees with you necessarily agrees with everyone you oppose.

The Afghan war is a tragedy now because it was initially prosecuted under the idiotic doctrine spelled out by Rumsfeld and Cheney. Sadly Bush valued loyalty more than competence so we were stuck with the very loyal but totally incompetent Rumsfeld as he mismanaged us into the hole we're in now. We're getting out of that hole in Iraq. But the Rumsfeld told Bush we won the war in Afghanistan in 2002, so the situation there decayed from 2003 until now.

Did you this violently attack the administration when Gen Eric Shinseki was forced out for telling the SecDef that it would take several hundred thousand soldiers to neutralize and stabilize Iraq? You realize the surge was proposed (under the name "clear and hold") prior to the 04 election but shot down for political reasons? Do you think the timing of the 2nd batlle of Fallujah (3 days after the 04 election) was not political? The insurgents had 6 extra months to fortify the city. How many extra American soldiers died in Fallujah because George Bush didn't want to take casualties before the election in 2004? How was that not politicians telling generals how to do their jobs?
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Re: Attack on remote Afghan outposts kills 8 US troops

PostBy: coalkirk On: Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:54 am

mikeandgerry wrote:During the previous administration didn't the left call General Petraeus, General "Betray us"? I thought for sure you would find the Taliban account at least reasonably credible. Perhaps it was, considering this from the Associated Press in the same article:

Details of the attack remained unclear Sunday and there were conflicting reports of Afghan losses due to poor communications in the area....

A NATO statement... two outposts — one mostly American position on the summit and another mostly Afghan police garrison on a lower slope.

NATO said eight Americans and two Afghan security troopers were killed.

An Afghan military official... said three Afghan soldiers and one policeman had been killed in two days of fighting. He also said at least seven Afghan army soldiers were missing and feared captured.

In addition, provincial police chief Mohammad Qasim Jangulbagh said 15 Afghan policemen had been captured, including the local police chief and his deputy. Jangulbagh estimated that about 300 militants took part in the attack.



Everything is different now that the great military genius Obama is the CIC. Where are all the pictures of coffins coming into Dover AFB that were so critical for all to see when GWB was the CIC? Remember Obama said the Afhan war was the necessary war? Suddenly when he starts to take heat from the left wing nuts, he's not so sure. If Afghanistan falls back to the Taliban, Pakistan will be next along with all of their nukes. I think general Obama was right the first time. This is a necessary war. Every American hates to hear of casualties of our troops. Only the Westboro baptist church and Michael Moore types take any glee in them. But war is a dangerous business and people get killed. Many in this country have gone soft in the head. In WWII we lost thousands in one day many many times and people didn't lose their will to defeat the enemy. Fortunatley with the state of war today that is highly unlikkley. It is likely however that we could lose thousands or tens of thousands of civilians in a day if we don't succeed in this war on islamic extremeists.
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