Wood making comeback as power source

Wood making comeback as power source

PostBy: bear creek burnout On: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:04 pm

OK.....now it's time to rape our forests.....

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nat ... ower_N.htm

Plants have promised to use waste wood, but "as soon as they get their permit and see how much it's going to cost to do that, they change their tune," he says. Stewart says it is generally more expensive to build a wood-burning plant than one powered by coal or natural gas.

bear creek burnout
 
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Re: Wood making comeback as power source

PostBy: Richard S. On: Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:15 pm

I wonder what kind of effect that will have on the cost pellets.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Wood making comeback as power source

PostBy: bear creek burnout On: Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:28 pm

Man I bet that drives the price of pellets skyhigh.....they both will be competing for the same "waste" wood product......
I'll stay with coal.... 8-)
bear creek burnout
 
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Re: Wood making comeback as power source

PostBy: 009to090 On: Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:32 pm

bear creek burnout wrote:OK.....now it's time to rape our forests.....

What forests??? They are mostly gone, anyway. :shock:
Let em build it. Coal will probably go down in price.
Supply & Demand.
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice

Re: Wood making comeback as power source

PostBy: SMITTY On: Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:37 pm

Better than burning Saudi oil, that's for sure.

I'll stick will coal also. 8-)
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Wood making comeback as power source

PostBy: Paulie On: Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:45 pm

It always amazes me when people look at wood as a "renewable" fuel source. It is , but it does not mean that it IS renewed.
Is a tree planted for every one that is harvested? Hardly. Am also curious to see if the need for wood for fuel, will bring
hemp in for paper. We will need those acres for fuel more than paper. I am sticking with Anthracite, it is cold here tonight,
30s, stove is on in the basement, no oil being burned, my big old house is toasty. :)
Paulie
 
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Re: Wood making comeback as power source

PostBy: RMA On: Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:51 pm

Richard S. wrote:I wonder what kind of effect that will have on the cost pellets.


That would have further effect than just pellets, I fear. It would push up the cost of construction products too, from particle and flake products to board products...

You may recall my previous rave:
If they are going to do this they are going to have to plant those BAMBOO forests in the DAKOTAS; beneath the WIND TURBINES

http://www.bamboocentral.org/shareinrep ... bamboo.htm

While the Bamboo is growing at the rate three feet per day, it is also processing Carbon Dioxide:
If we can get enough of that Bamboo growing then maybe "they" will get off our case for burning a little Anthracite...

Heck, we'll trade bamboo credits to burn Anthracite... :doh: sounds like cap & trade :cry:




Bob
RMA
 

Re: Wood making comeback as power source

PostBy: 009to090 On: Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:05 pm

RMA wrote:While the Bamboo is growing at the rate three feet per day, it is also processing Carbon Dioxide:
If we can get enough of that Bamboo growing then maybe "they" will get off our case for burning a little Anthracite...
Heck, we'll trade bamboo credits to burn Anthracite... :doh: sounds like cap & trade :cry:
Bob

I'm doing my part... we have a 50 x 50ft bamboo patch in our back yard. Its about 30ft tall. I'll get a pic tomorrow.
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice

Re: Wood making comeback as power source

PostBy: RMA On: Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:29 pm

Chris,
There are quite a few varieties of Bamboo some will grow to around 30' others to a 100' some will spread like wild fire and other clump and spread very slowly...Is your Bamboo rather docile? (like the clumping type)
I am amazed at how quickly it can grow. I don't know how good it might be as a fuel, but it makes nice flooring!! I can also envision it being used in a flake-board type product...thus freeing conventional flake for electrical generation.

The famous Balsams Wilderness of Dixville Notch, NH used sawdust (from N E mills) to generate their electrical power (30 years ago). Now, they use home grown timber (they are located on 15,000 acres) and wind-turbine power...

Glad you're doing your part :mrgreen:


Bob
RMA
 

Re: Wood making comeback as power source

PostBy: 009to090 On: Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:36 pm

RMA wrote:Chris,
There are quite a few varieties of Bamboo some will grow to around 30' others to a 100' some will spread like wild fire and other clump and spread very slowly...Is your Bamboo rather docile? (like the clumping type)
I am amazed at how quickly it can grow. I don't know how good it might be as a fuel, but it makes nice flooring!!Bob

It spreads like grass. Once a year, it sends out underground runners, and the stalks grow up from these. Every May, hundreds of new stalks pop thru the ground, and reach their full heigth within a week or two. You can almost HEAR them growing :shock: They are also an Evergreen, staying green all year round.
They make great Fishing rods :D :D :D
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice

Burn it all!!!

PostBy: eelhc On: Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:09 am

SMITTY wrote:Better than burning Saudi oil, that's for sure.

I'll stick will coal also. 8-)


Spot on... I'm all for biomass gasification on a large scale. Back during WWII,the US didn't waste an ounce of domestic resource and folks drove around in vehicles powered via woodgas. Lawn waste, corn husks, paper that can't be recycled, algae (yes algae)... we should burn everything!
eelhc
 
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Re: Wood making comeback as power source

PostBy: Freddy On: Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:42 am

This ship sailed years ago in Maine. We've had several biomass built, used, closed, reopened, closed again. I'm not sure how many are on line right now, It's hard to keep up with which one went bank-o this week. It's poppy-cock that they use bark & branches, It's way too costly to move that crap and there's not nearly enough of it Oh, ya, they use some, but for the most part they use chips and, yes, it has driven the cost of pellets and all lumber up. The wood resource is called "fiber". Every industry that uses it bids for the fiber, The last few years the fiber supply has been tight. It has driven pellets from $180 a ton to pushing $300 a ton.

Yes...In large scale operations a new tree is planted for every one harvested, at least here in Maine. Smaller lots, not so much.
Freddy
 
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Re: Wood making comeback as power source

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:24 am

DVC500 at last wrote:
bear creek burnout wrote:OK.....now it's time to rape our forests.....

What forests??? They are mostly gone, anyway. :shock:

I'm pretty sure there are a lot more trees in this country now than there was 100 years ago. New England and most of the east coast were covered with farms back then, next to none now. The 5 acres of forest I own was once pasture land for a cow farm, now it's nothing but trees.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
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Re: Wood making comeback as power source

PostBy: Berlin On: Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:32 am

coaledsweat wrote:
DVC500 at last wrote:
bear creek burnout wrote:OK.....now it's time to rape our forests.....

What forests??? They are mostly gone, anyway. :shock:

I'm pretty sure there are a lot more trees in this country now than there was 100 years ago. New England and most of the east coast were covered with farms back then, next to none now. The 5 acres of forest I own was once pasture land for a cow farm, now it's nothing but trees.


you are absolutely right. forest density has increased dramitically in the 20th century, as well as forested land in the north. we have more trees in the north now then we've had in a long, long time. freddy's right, it's very hard or even impossible to compete on a cost-per-kilowatt produced basis burning only wood waste; the expense of transportation dictates that in order to make money the fuel source has to be dense or sourced next to the plant. there's nothing wrong with burning whole trees, most of northern new england/northern NY is heavily forested.
Berlin
 
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Re: Wood making comeback as power source

PostBy: RMA On: Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:48 am

coaledsweat wrote:
DVC500 at last wrote:
bear creek burnout wrote:OK.....now it's time to rape our forests.....

What forests??? They are mostly gone, anyway. :shock:

I'm pretty sure there are a lot more trees in this country now than there was 100 years ago. New England and most of the east coast were covered with farms back then, next to none now. The 5 acres of forest I own was once pasture land for a cow farm, now it's nothing but trees.


Interesting...According to the US Forest Service

Land and Forest Area
It is estimated that—at the beginning of European settlement—
in 1630 the area of forest land that would become
the United States was 423 million hectares or about 46
percent of the total land area. By 1907, the area of forest
land had declined to an estimated 307 million hectares or
34 percent of the total land area. Forest area has been relatively
stable since 1907. In 1997, 302 million hectares—
or 33 percent of the total land area of the United States—
was in forest land. Today’s forest land area amounts to
about 70 percent of the area that was forested in 1630.
Since 1630, about 120 million hectares of forest land
have been converted to other uses—mainly agricultural.
More than 75 percent of the net conversion to other uses
occurred in the 19th century.


It seems that the total forested acreage in the US has been rather constant since 1907...There's your 100 years...
The 20th century ushered the age of steel ships, easing some pressure on our forests.

Bob
RMA