What a rip off.... Mapp gas related

What a rip off.... Mapp gas related

PostBy: Freddy On: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:17 am

I went to Home Depot this weekend. I usually go to Lowes as it's way closer, but I happened to be near HD. While there I needed some Mapp gas. I find my way to the propane isle, yup, there it is, yellow can as usual, but...it doesn't say "Mapp" on the can. In small letters it says "Max Power Propylene". OK... saleman says It's Mapp, but Mapp is a registered trademark, so Bernzomatic makes it under this name. On the tag in the dispaly it says "Mapp replacement". It is the same price as Mapp, it must be Mapp, right? So, I buy a "fat boy" tank. While there I buy a self lighting Bernzomatic torch made for Mapp as the price was right and my old one stopped sparking. They make two torches, one has a brass tip. I questioned how that could be as Brass won't take the heat of Mapp. I bought the stainless steel one with a hose. I get it home, try it out. The torch doesn't deliver near the flame that my Turbo torch did, and it seemed to give no where near the heat. Could barely turn a half inch rod red. I then tried the Max Power Propylene in my Turbo torch. It did not heat steel nearly as fast as Mapp, and I could tell no where near as hot. So, I start doing some research. Propane burns at 3,450F, Max Power Propylene burns at 3,600F, Mapp burns at 5,301. That's a HUGE difference! I wish I were a lawyer. It just is not right that Bernzomatic can use a yellow can making you think it's generic Mapp, when in actuality the only way it's the same as Mapp is the price. Max Power Propylene is only 6% hotter than propane. Mapp gas is over 50% hotter. Max Power should be 6% more in price than propane, not 300%!!

Now I know how they can use a brass tipped torch, the low heat of Max Power Propylene won't hurt it a bit. I wouldn't be so ticked if they used an orange can...Grrrrr

Mind you, Bernzomatic is clever in their wording, it was a Home Depot tag that claimed it is a Mapp replacement. So....class action lawsuits! One for Bernzomatic using a yellow can, and one for HD for using the word Mapp. Bernzomatic is clever on their website, saying how they are doing the world a favor by creating this new gas, that the main ingredient of Mapp is being used to make plastic and there's not enough for Mapp. What a rip off!

Bottom line, if you need Mapp gas... get MAPP.

PS . The torch I got...I now know why the price was right. It's cheap junk! The first time I tried the button that keeps the flame on, it wouldn't shut off. I had to use my jackknife to pry the button back up.

<edit for spelling>
Last edited by Freddy on Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: What a rip off.... Mapp gas related

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:42 am

Live & learn Freddy, makes you want to buy from estate sales & auctions. If you have the time like I do the older stuff is better, all this crap that China sends over is just that crap.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75

Re: What a rip off.... Mapp gas related

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:26 pm

We like the used tool store...
craigslist too...
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove


Re: What a rip off.... Mapp gas related

PostBy: SMITTY On: Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:43 am

I almost bought that same one Freddy. Now I'm glad I didn't! Yet one more reason NOT to shop at Home Depot. I HATE that place! :mad:

I've had similar experiences with plumbing & electrical products stating one thing & performing totally different. Ever try to solder pipe with Home Depot solder & flux??? Next to impossible .... they must do this on purpose so a newbie will hire one of their recommended plumbers after giving up in frustration! :mad:
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: What a rip off.... Mapp gas related

PostBy: KLook On: Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:04 am

Ha, the problem is that the way to make money is steal it. Unethical advertising and misleading statements on labels and salesmen schooled to just sell. I recently bought 2 AC wired devices from Lowes that stated on the label that you could chain together up to24 devices and 18 of them could initiate an alarm. So I chose 1 smoke and 1 CO alarm as I had 2 locations and I wanted them connected. The hookup was simple but when I tested the devices, the smoke alarm would set off the CO detector but not the other say around. The guy that responded to my e-mail sounded like I was silly to want a CO to set off the smoke alarm! Once I pointed out that both the label and the instructions made it clear to anyone that can read that it was supposed to work, he stopped talking or responding to me. The brand was Kidde by the way.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: What a rip off.... Mapp gas related

PostBy: Freddy On: Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:32 am

Sadly, the torch was made in the USA.

Yaaa, I don't like HD. It's a frustrating place to shop for many reasons. It also bugs me that they came to town with cheap prices, drove all the Mom & Pop places out of business and now their prices are higher than Mom & Pop ever where. There is one local building supply that survived and now they thrive by advertising how they are less money and have better service than the big box stores...and...they are & they have!
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: What a rip off.... Mapp gas related

PostBy: traderfjp On: Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:32 pm

One nice thing about the big box stores is there easy return policy. Why didn't you just return the whole lot?
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: What a rip off.... Mapp gas related

PostBy: Cap On: Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:27 pm

They make two torches, one has a brass tip. I questioned how that could be as Brass won't take the heat of Mapp. I bought the stainless steel one with a hose. I get it home, try it out. The torch doesn't deliver near the flame that my Turbo torch did, and it seemed to give no where near the heat.


The tip doesn't actually get hot unless the heat is radiating back onto it from the steel. Try lighting your torch, and hold it by the tip. If the flame is neutral, the tip won't get hot. Crazy but true. My welding tips were always copper. We always used this style tip with Mapp/Oxy for silver brazing. Cutting tips were copper too.

Mapp is a particular hard gas to light. It takes several attempts. I had a method, add some oxy to the mapp, create a spark with my flint striker. Adjust to a slightly carbonizing flame for soldering, neutral for cutting. Mapp gas was owned by BOC, sold to Airgas when BOC got out of the cylinder business and I believe Airgas sold off Mapp to ??? I don't know. Mapp never really caught on in the market place to compete with acetylene in cylinders or polypropylene or propane in bulk.

I agree with the junk sold in HD or Lowes these days. You just cannot get quality torches unless you by from Victor or Concoa. And advertising is brutal. I don't see how it is actaully regulated.
See
http://www.gossonline.com/site/Airco_Tips.php
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
Cap
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF 250, domestic hot water loop, heat accumulator

Re: What a rip off.... Mapp gas related

PostBy: acesover On: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:06 pm

See the tools for sale. Old but good.
acesover
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Baker
Stove/Furnace Model: insert, modified

Re: What a rip off.... Mapp gas related

PostBy: Freddy On: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:41 pm

I did return it & got my money back. It's just a pain for me as I don't go to that area often.

As a guy that can't quite justify having an acetylene set up, I find Mapp fills the gap. I have friends with acetylene that I can borrow, but the Mapp get's me out of a lot of pickles.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: What a rip off.... Mapp gas related

PostBy: 009to090 On: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:48 pm

Freddy wrote: In small letters it says "Max Power Propylene".

Yep, been there, got screwed too :mad: Theres just something wrong with advertizing something like that. Thats like saying a Volkswagon is a substitute for a Corvette, yeah they'll both start up and run, but the end results are miles apart :mad:
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice

Re: What a rip off.... Mapp gas related

PostBy: traderfjp On: Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:48 pm

I buy my Mapp gas in Ace hardware. It's about 10.00 for a canister and lasts a long time. I think the tip with self ignitor was around 39.99. It's a nice setup for once in a while plumbing.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: What a rip off.... Mapp gas related

PostBy: SMITTY On: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:36 pm

Yep, I have the same setup from same store. I use it for all plumbing & for freeing rusted parts. I couldn't imagine using regular propane ... Been using Mapp for so long I could never go back.
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: What a rip off.... Mapp gas related

PostBy: traderfjp On: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:17 pm

I wonder if they get it out of the ground like that or do they do something to it to make it burn hotter?
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: What a rip off.... Mapp gas related

PostBy: SMITTY On: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:23 pm

It's man-made. It would be alot cheaper if they got it out of the ground... It's a mix of LPG & other chemicals: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAPP_gas
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler