AXEMAN 101 *Class Is In Session!*

Re: AXEMAN 101 *Class Is In Session!*

PostBy: Sting On: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:11 pm

Hummm

you learn something every day! I thought appliance temp was -- well an Appliance Temperature :?

Next time -- Ill break the Prozaks in half
Sting
 
Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG

Re: AXEMAN 101 *Class Is In Session!*

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:52 pm

Sting wrote:Hummm

you learn something every day! I thought appliance temp was -- well an Appliance Temperature :?

Next time -- Ill break the Prozaks in half

Yeah, save me the other half. When I'm done learning about this thing, I may need them.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: AXEMAN 101 *Class Is In Session!*

PostBy: LsFarm On: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:46 pm

It definitely takes awhile to figure out all the characteristics of the AA boilers.. I'm not sure that my AA is done 'teaching' me new burning characteristics.

With a change in coal, outside temperatures, ashing temperature, water temperature, BTU load, etc. The ash looks different, the clinkers either shrink, grow or go away. The percentage of unburnt coal in the ash changes, the amount of powdery ash to crunchy hard ash. And the variables go on and on.

This season, I didn't touch any settings, it is ashing at 135*, about 3 clicks, and the water temp is at 135-160* [160* with 25* differential] The boiler is behaving well, little unburnt ash, and lots of powdery ash.

Greg L



.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: AXEMAN 101 *Class Is In Session!*

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:24 pm

I am a little shocked at the ash, almost no unburned coal in it. It seems to have a mind of its own. No mater what I play with the thing just ignores me and does what it does.
I checked an online pulley calculator and found out my estmates of the fan's speed was a little off. :roll: I figured a 15% overdrive and it appears to be a 30% overdrive giving the 260M a fan speed of 2653 RPM. When I changed the pulleys that went down to 1121 RPM so basically I have detuned the blower by 60%. You would think that kind of change would have a significant impact on its ability to perform well, but it seems happy as a clam. The big bonus is that the noise from it went from starting a jet engine to quieter than the oil burner, I can't hear in run from the room above it now (my wife can). I think I'll pick up some pulleys about equal in size, the calculator gave me a few combos. Just in case when it gets real cold, I can give it a little oompfh if it needs it. Now that the asher is working it only runs about 30-40 seconds at a time every now and then. The longest I've seen it run in the last three days is about two minutes. It looks like I've burned about 40# a day since startup, not bad considering I had the doors open a lot to see this thing work. It's kind of funny, when I had the hand fired, I went down there and fought with it, shoveled coal and emptied the ash pan twice a day for about 10-5 minutes a day. Now I spend an hour or two down there with nothing to do but stare at it. :)

By the way, how on earth does the fire stay alive? There can't possibly be any air coming from underneath through 5-6" of ash without that huge huffer going.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: AXEMAN 101 *Class Is In Session!*

PostBy: Yanche On: Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:48 pm

coaledsweat wrote:By the way, how on earth does the fire stay alive? There can't possibly be any air coming from underneath through 5-6" of ash without that huge huffer going.

It stays alive because it so hard to put out a previously robust coal file, especially when it surrounded by hot boiler water. The hot water reduces the temperature gradient from the burning coal to it's surroundings. That allows it to burn even longer compared to what it would be in open air. Hats off to the engineers at Penn State that originally designed it.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: AXEMAN 101 *Class Is In Session!*

PostBy: whistlenut On: Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:49 pm

It's magic...............don't ask, don't anyone tell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: AXEMAN 101 *Class Is In Session!*

PostBy: whistlenut On: Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:57 pm

Yanche, good-evening. While ordering some heat shield parts from AHS today, Jeff answered the phone, took my order and we chatted a bit, and your name came up. Since I had seen your post about the retro to the thermo-ashing controls, and a couple other mods, I checked in about doing the mods to AA units also. I would like to PM you about your mods, or if you would like, a public post is fine.
Jeff is a great resource, the techs are very helpful and it sure is a nice company to do business with.

PS: Patrick is no longer with AHS, and has moved on to other opportunities, so don't be afraid to call the main office number, still a friendly person answers and the techs are available to advise and provide assistance or parts.
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: AXEMAN 101 *Class Is In Session!*

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:25 pm

Yanche wrote:It stays alive because it so hard to put out a previously robust coal file, especially when it surrounded by hot boiler water. The hot water reduces the temperature gradient from the burning coal to it's surroundings. That allows it to burn even longer compared to what it would be in open air. Hats off to the engineers at Penn State that originally designed it.

Must have been the graduating class with The Lord of The Dark and Rube Goldberg. They did one hell of a job, robust doesn't really describe the fire for me. More like hell on earth. I notice a huge swirl of blue flame rising out of the coal when the blower runs. Aside from the volcanic lava glowing below it, the swirl of blue looks like a high horsepower NG burner's Morrison tube. I would hate to think what it is like with the blower spinning 2.5 times faster than it is. :shock:
It never puts much heat up the chimney, it averages 110-145*. When I humped it real hard for a while it ran up to 210*. My handfired with the tiny blower (1/10 HP?) would run 5-600*. It is a real bizarre machine as it seems to defy coal burning basics.
If you stare at the fire while it is running, you can see the coal falling through the fire like its on a conveyor. All other stokers feed the coal, this one shaves the ash. Slicker than lard on a doorknob. :)
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: AXEMAN 101 *Class Is In Session!*

PostBy: SMITTY On: Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:01 am

Sounds like you could generate your own power & sell it back to the grid! :lol: :idea:
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: AXEMAN 101 *Class Is In Session!*

PostBy: Yanche On: Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:02 am

coaledsweat wrote:
Yanche wrote:It stays alive because it so hard to put out a previously robust coal file, especially when it surrounded by hot boiler water. The hot water reduces the temperature gradient from the burning coal to it's surroundings. That allows it to burn even longer compared to what it would be in open air. Hats off to the engineers at Penn State that originally designed it.

Must have been the graduating class with The Lord of The Dark and Rube Goldberg. They did one hell of a job, robust doesn't really describe the fire for me. More like hell on earth. I notice a huge swirl of blue flame rising out of the coal when the blower runs. Aside from the volcanic lava glowing below it, the swirl of blue looks like a high horsepower NG burner's Morrison tube. I would hate to think what it is like with the blower spinning 2.5 times faster than it is. :shock:
It never puts much heat up the chimney, it averages 110-145*. When I humped it real hard for a while it ran up to 210*. My handfired with the tiny blower (1/10 HP?) would run 5-600*. It is a real bizarre machine as it seems to defy coal burning basics.
If you stare at the fire while it is running, you can see the coal falling through the fire like its on a conveyor. All other stokers feed the coal, this one shaves the ash. Slicker than lard on a doorknob. :)

Just think what a ground up re-design using the concepts proven in the AA and AHS boilers. How about:

Integrated modern electrics controls, demand related variable speed blower, out door reset controller.

Dual burn pots. One very small for idling and summer domestic hot water heating. A second for winter use. Light the second pot by sucking burning gases of the first.

Automated ash removal. Auger, vacuum cyclone, etc. Jeff at AHS told me they have a ash design that crushes the clinkers using the existing grate motor. Then the ash can be reliably removed using conventional material handling techniques.

Endless possibilities.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: AXEMAN 101 *Class Is In Session!*

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:24 am

Yanche wrote:How about:
Integrated modern electrics controls, demand related variable speed blower, out door reset controller.

That's another thing. It seems like it is running off a PLC as there is no rhyme or reason to what it does when starting or stopping. The water temp stays incredibly stable, you expect it to run to the high limit and stop, then start at the low limit. This thing runs a little every now and then and never overheats and never hits the bottom limit. Seems to have AI or something running it. :shock: :?:
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: AXEMAN 101 *Class Is In Session!*

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:42 am

Ian, one thing to think about with your fan speed slowed down by 60%: The scrubbing action and self cleaning action of the high velocity air in the heat exchanger is going to be significantly reduced or possibly eliminated. You will want to keep an eye on fly ash accumulation in the bottom of the heat exchanger areas, the ash 'cyclone' and the cone at the bottom of the cyclone. All of these need a certain amount of air velocity to work as designed.

I have an AA 260 that was used at an idle for most of it's life, and it is seriously coated and clogged with flyash. the cone had 8" of hard flyash above it in the 'cyclone' tube, and the 'pope's hat' adapter that the flue pipe is fitted to was pretty much glued in place with fly ash around the cyclone's passageway perimeter gap.

So I'd recommend taking the fan and fan plate off after a month or two to make sure that you don't have an accumulation of ash in the bottom of the circular heat exchanger, and take the flue off occasionally and shine a light down to the ash cone, making sure it is open and the caulking around it's upper diameter is intact to the cyclone's inner diameter. If the caulking gets hard and falls out, the extra hot exhaust gasses, depleted of oxygen will cause a LOT of unburnt coal in the firepot. This is from personal experience.

Take care, Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: AXEMAN 101 *Class Is In Session!*

PostBy: coal berner On: Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:35 pm

whistlenut wrote:Wooohhhhhh. The belt is designed to be twisted and run that way. DO NOT change a damned thing. You may think you were smarter than the designers, but check out the logic first. Yes. AHS did away with the twisted belt route by adding separate motors for blower and for ashing, but that is because the don't drive a feed auger with the two groove pulley that runs a twisted belt for gear box power.

AA may not be a tunable as the EFM or the new Royall, but they have been around for 70 years and still sell all they can make. You can find a 1950's unit, disassemble it and find it to be nearly perfect inside. The steel must have been better back then..... Cabinover has an AA that was neutered by removing the auger supports and gearbox, etc. and has a separate motor for the ashing grate controlled by the original anthrastat.

PS: The AA 260 fan WILL 'suck the chrome off a trailer ball! It is not a toy, or a half hearted attempt to bun coal. It is the real deal! Hope you have good demand for the BTU's generated, the puppy will idle and still make 80K!

Getting used to the tinkle/tinkle of of the auger yet?

Axeman Anderson was formed in 1944
EFM first stoker patents was 1906/1908 started General machine Co. in 1922 first boiler was made in 1948
Wil -burt stoker Co. started in 1923
Keystoker started in 1946
Royall furnace Co started in 1968
AHS first prototype was 1979 of the Eshland design
Many other furnace /boiler Co. had came and gone over the years .
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: AXEMAN 101 *Class Is In Session!*

PostBy: SMITTY On: Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:59 pm

I scanned through the last 6 pages to see if this spec was mentioned, but didn't see it ......

How much does this sucker weigh? My guess, it's gotta be close to 9 bills! :o
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: AXEMAN 101 *Class Is In Session!*

PostBy: whistlenut On: Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:05 pm

More when fully assembled. My back says they are about 1200 fully dressed. No plastic crap on these rigs!
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Visit Lehigh Anthracite