The article every American should read

Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:28 pm

lowfog01 wrote:
ErikLaurence wrote:Obama has one more Czar (a title that does not exist) than George Bush did.


You make my point - Czars do not exist or at least they are not supposed to.

If you are unable to see the difference in a “kitchen cabinet” that previous President’s have had versus what ever you want to call what Obama has I can’t help you. Besides, I didn't say Czars were ok for any President but it’s especially not ok to have Czars like Obama’s who have been given enormous decision making powers. Just look at the Payroll Czar - did you vote for this Czar - one unelected man in the federal government - to declare what was fair compensation for a job preformed. Yah, they took Tarp money, so what my point stands. Was this Czar approved by the Senate per the Constitution? Or the environmental Czar who is working with the EPA to place new restrictions on the public with no congressional oversight. Did you vote for him, did anyone? Did he undergo congressional vetting? No and why not? Could it be because the administration knew that the appointment wouldn’t happen if we were given the opportunity to examine the records?


What makes you believe these "czars" have the power you claim they do? You heard it on the radio? Can you give a specific example of how a "czar" with no oversight has done anything? An actual example, not random hearsay.

You also do understand that a great many of the so called czars are in fact confirmed by the senate? In addition many of them are also appointed by people other than the President (the "compensation czar" (actually Special Master for TARP Executive Compensation) for instance is appointed by the treasury department). The Special Master for TARP Executive Compensation is such a raving lefty that John Ashcroft (what a commie he is) made him Special Master for the September 11 Victim Compensation Fund?

Let me ask a question, do you think that Vikram Pandit, the head of Citigroup, whose total pay came to $38 million in 2008, who did such a poor job running the company that the treasury needed to bail them out, should be paid $38 million of OUR money?
ErikLaurence
 
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: rberq On: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:05 pm

Quotation from Thomas Sowell, fruitcake: "... the people [Obama] has been associated with for years have expressed in words and deeds their hostility to the values, the principles and the people of this country."

Gosh, when W was president, it was the Iraqis who "hated freedom". Now it's anybody in the USA who is not a Beck-Limbaugh malcontent-for-profit. Does this ring true to you? Really?
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: SMITTY On: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:16 pm

rberq wrote:Gosh, when W was president, it was the Iraqis who "hated freedom". Now it's anybody in the USA who is not a Beck-Limbaugh malcontent-for-profit. Does this ring true to you? Really?

Iraqis hated freedom??? :?: :? The only people who hate freedom & everything it stands for are terrorists. I don't recall anyone saying Iraqis hate freedom. :?:


ErikLaurence wrote:You made a blanket statement questioning a wide variety of people's patriotism with absolutely ZERO substantiation

Not to get in the middle of you guys, but didn't half the people Obama hired NOT pay their taxes? Didn't one of them belong to a 60's radical terrrorist organization that firebombed buildings??? Those types of people like America??? What are we supposed to think of losers like that??? :?:
SMITTY
 
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:27 pm

SMITTY wrote:Not to get in the middle of you guys, but didn't half the people Obama hired NOT pay their taxes? Didn't one of them belong to a 60's radical terrrorist organization that firebombed buildings??? Those types of people like America??? What are we supposed to think of losers like that??? :?:


Bill Ayers is in the administration? Really?
ErikLaurence
 
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: SMITTY On: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:47 pm

toothy :rofl: :rofl: :up: GOOD BOY!!!

Maybe I got my Czars mixed up. Either way, http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=104514


http://newsbusters.org/forums/latest-news/obamas-czars-plan-radical-changes-31379

This could go on all night, but I need my beauuuuty rest! :|
SMITTY
 
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: Paulie On: Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:07 pm

The Gov response to Large problems seems to be CZAR creation.. The pay cap has come about, because these over paid greed
merchants f'ed the country and the world hard. Do I like the Gov involved? No. Do I like getting seriously F'ed over by some
dick on Wall Street ? NO. Regulate his ass. Maybe he will have to earn a living and actually create wealth vs merely skimming
and repackaging it. Health care is the same thing. The Insurance COs are jacking us and the health care people hard. Well
we are getting SOOOOOO screwed, that the GOV is getting involved. Do I like it? NO. But I like getting screwed by some
ins co alot less! So you can get all anti-government you want, you may actually be right! But do not be a tool for some industry
that hides behind the Constitution so it can butt rape you and your children. bop2
Paulie
 
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:28 am

tvb wrote:http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1331


Funny that you should use this article as your defense in supporting Obama's Maxists minions.

The first paragraph is “How and why had I changed from a young leftist to someone with my present views, which are essentially in favor of free markets and traditional values? In a sense, it was not so much a change in underlying philosophy, as in my vision of how human beings operate."

While I'm not sure of his birthday I do know that he is in his 70s or early 80s. This article was written in Jan of 2002 and spoke of a time in his youth; I'll say his twenties for purposes of this discussion. So if all that is true, Oh no! - 50 years ago - the 50s Thomas Sowell was involved in the leftist movement. So what if he was people grow and learn. In the article Sowell even talks about the passing decades. There are studies out that document that the majority of college seniors graduate as Liberals, but became Conservative after they start to pay taxes and have families. It's what he has done over the 50s years that reveals his true character and beliefs.

Let's compare that to Van Jones who is a self processed communist and publicly stated so in 2007. Or how about Anita Dunn, who praised Mao as one of the people she turns to for her political philosophy. And these people have the ear of the President of the United States? If that article is all you have no wonder I question your objectivity on anything. Lisa
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: rberq On: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:24 pm

lowfog01 wrote:There are studies out that document that the majority of college seniors graduate as Liberals, but became Conservative after they start to pay taxes and have families.

Be careful of "studies" -- too many of them find just what the researcher sets out to prove, because of unintentional bias or intentional dishonesty. There's no doubt that the young tend to be idealistic, and they temper their idealism somewhat as they gain life experience. A willingness to adjust their views, as they learn more, is to be applauded. "The majority" may become more conservative than they were, while remaining in the middle ground where most of us are.

Liberal and Conservative are such muddled terms, anyway. Look at the color band made by a prism, where the invisible reds shade by infinitesimal steps all the way through the visible spectrum to the invisible blues. Close your eyes and plunk your finger down at random somewhere on the band. Does it make sense to label everything to the left of your finger "red" and everything to the right of your finger "blue"? No. But that's what modern American politics does. I am probably more conservative on some issues than you are, and more liberal on others. So which one of us is the Conservative and which one the Liberal?

I object to "the article every American should read" because it presents no actual facts, it just plays on our fears. No matter where I am on the political spectrum, I will agree that the actions described just should not be allowed. But is any of this is REALLY HAPPENING? In my judgement, NO. Am I naive? Maybe. Are you overly credulous and fearful? Maybe.
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: rberq On: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:44 pm

lowfog01 wrote:Erik ... you are truly a valuable asset on the forum (sarcasm.)

Erik is one of the very few on the forum who present actual, documented facts in support of his positions, rather than just parroting the wild vague distortions of the Thomas Sowells and Rush Limbaughs of the world.
rberq
 
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: rberq On: Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:46 pm

mr1precision wrote:Bush had 47 czars over an 8 yr period with relitively no complaints.

There were lots of complaints registered a year ago in the voting booth. Yeah, yeah, I know, Bush wasn't running. Don't quibble. If Bush had done a decent job, McCain would have won the election.
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:42 pm

"In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man,
but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution."

-Thomas Jefferson
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: dll On: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:51 pm

In any argument, the heat of the argument is inversly proportional to the amount of knowledge present.
dll
 
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:56 pm

rberq wrote:
lowfog01 wrote:There are studies out that document that the majority of college seniors graduate as Liberals, but became Conservative after they start to pay taxes and have families.

Be careful of "studies" -- too many of them find just what the researcher sets out to prove, because of unintentional bias or intentional dishonesty. There's no doubt that the young tend to be idealistic, and they temper their idealism somewhat as they gain life experience. A willingness to adjust their views, as they learn more, is to be applauded. "The majority" may become more conservative than they were, while remaining in the middle ground where most of us are.

Liberal and Conservative are such muddled terms, anyway. Look at the color band made by a prism, where the invisible reds shade by infinitesimal steps all the way through the visible spectrum to the invisible blues. Close your eyes and plunk your finger down at random somewhere on the band. Does it make sense to label everything to the left of your finger "red" and everything to the right of your finger "blue"? No. But that's what modern American politics does. I am probably more conservative on some issues than you are, and more liberal on others. So which one of us is the Conservative and which one the Liberal?

I object to "the article every American should read" because it presents no actual facts, it just plays on our fears. No matter where I am on the political spectrum, I will agree that the actions described just should not be allowed. But is any of this is REALLY HAPPENING? In my judgement, NO. Am I naive? Maybe. Are you overly credulous and fearful? Maybe.



Let's start out with a simple idea.

There are NO, NONE, ZERO, movement liberals on a coal burning message board. No self respecting movement liberal would ever burn coal. They would lose their movement liberal membership card in an instant.

If one is not a movement conservative around here, one get called a liberal.

I'm a coal burning, gun owning, anti-abortion, hunting and fishing, guy, who home schools, who has voted for more republicans in my lifetime than democrats and I get called a liberal??? Movement conservatism is what's wrong with the GOP right now (movement liberalism is what's wrong with the dems). The fact that Snowe and Collins and Lieberman get excoriated by their respective parties just shows the myopia. If you're not in lockstep with all the partisan positions then you must be evil.
ErikLaurence
 
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: tvb On: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:22 pm

Let's start out with a simple idea.

There are NO, NONE, ZERO, movement liberals on a coal burning message board. No self respecting movement liberal would ever burn coal. They would lose their movement liberal membership card in an instant.

If one is not a movement conservative around here, one get called a liberal.

I'm a coal burning, gun owning, anti-abortion, hunting and fishing, guy, who home schools, who has voted for more republicans in my lifetime than democrats and I get called a liberal??? Movement conservatism is what's wrong with the GOP right now (movement liberalism is what's wrong with the dems). The fact that Snowe and Collins and Lieberman get excoriated by their respective parties just shows the myopia. If you're not in lockstep with all the partisan positions then you must be evil.


I hope you wrote that second graf tongue in cheek. It's a strawman to disprove the fallacy of blanket statements by covering it up with another blanket statement.
tvb
 
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:31 pm

tvb wrote:
Let's start out with a simple idea.

There are NO, NONE, ZERO, movement liberals on a coal burning message board. No self respecting movement liberal would ever burn coal. They would lose their movement liberal membership card in an instant.

If one is not a movement conservative around here, one get called a liberal.

I'm a coal burning, gun owning, anti-abortion, hunting and fishing, guy, who home schools, who has voted for more republicans in my lifetime than democrats and I get called a liberal??? Movement conservatism is what's wrong with the GOP right now (movement liberalism is what's wrong with the dems). The fact that Snowe and Collins and Lieberman get excoriated by their respective parties just shows the myopia. If you're not in lockstep with all the partisan positions then you must be evil.


I hope you wrote that second graf tongue in cheek. It's a strawman to disprove the fallacy of blanket statements by covering it up with another blanket statement.


I'm not trying to disprove the fallacy of blanket statements.

I am saying burning coal is mutually exclusive from being a movement liberal

It's like saying one is both an evangelical christian and an atheist.
ErikLaurence
 
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