The article every American should read

Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: rberq On: Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:31 pm

Black_And_Blue wrote:Sowell's followup article stings with more truths

Simple answers for simple minds (present company excluded, of course). In TV they call it sound bites. Real world issues have nuances and subtleties. Almost never are they all black or all white as Sowell would have them.

I guess the simple and appropriate action for Obama would be to ask Sowell for a list of troublesome countries, then launch an all-out nuclear attack on all of them (except maybe Russia which could shoot back). There! Problem solved for at least a generation. All in favor, say Aye.
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:40 pm

Toward the bottom of the page :
http://thepage.time.com/transcript-gibbs-october-30-2009-briefing/
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


Q&A press meeting regarding Afghanistan :

MR. GIBBS: Again, we haven't gotten into broad specifics on that yet.

On the first part, Jeff, you know, look, I think -- I don't -- I used to have it calculated, I should just go back and do it, the number of hours that he has spent in these meetings is probably now -- well, at the end of today will probably be getting close to 20 direct hours of his time. The group -- the principals that meet with the President additionally take time to get the material ready, and are prepared to answer questions for the President, probably at least twice as much of that of the President's time the principals have spent.

So obviously we -- the President and his team have spent a pretty big chunk of time evaluating very, very closely each of these individual countries, their relationship together and their impact on the region.

*I have spent more time on the toilet pondering *
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: rberq On: Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:00 pm

Black_And_Blue wrote:... the President and his team have spent a pretty big chunk of time evaluating very, very closely each of these individual countries, their relationship together and their impact on the region

Hell, we're only talking life and death for thousands of our soldiers, and spending a few hundred billion dollars. Better just to flip a coin, then go to the ranch and cut some brush.
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:32 pm

This is what your get when you elect an individual as the President who has no decision making experience and who is looking to "fundamentally transform" the United States of America. His only work experience is as a Community Organizer and that means be everything to everybody. He is still playing that game only now the stakes are much higher. Tell me, in your gut, do you feel safer now or before he took office? That's an easy call for me, we are in more danger now, without a doubt. My 15 year old can see that. Sowell is right on this, Obama is being played as a fool and we will be the ones to pay the price.
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: rberq On: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:17 pm

lowfog01 wrote:Obama is being played as a fool

Well, it's true Obama has not yet put on a flight suit and strutted around on an aircraft carrier saying "mission accomplished" and "bring 'em on". And it's true he has not invaded any more countries where Al Queda and nuclear weapons were absent, on the grounds the country was full of both. And it's true he has not looked into Putin's eyes and seen his soul. (W must eat a lot of carrots, if he could see something that black.)

So if that kind of stuff makes you feel safe, I understand your concern.
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:57 pm

rberq wrote:
lowfog01 wrote:Obama is being played as a fool

Well, it's true Obama has not yet put on a flight suit and strutted around on an aircraft carrier saying "mission accomplished" and "bring 'em on". And it's true he has not invaded any more countries where Al Queda and nuclear weapons were absent, on the grounds the country was full of both. And it's true he has not looked into Putin's eyes and seen his soul. (W must eat a lot of carrots, if he could see something that black.)

So if that kind of stuff makes you feel safe, I understand your concern.


Gee, that's twice you've alluded to things Bush has done. When will you start looking at what Obama hasn’t done? That's ok, whether or not you or I agree with any or all of Bush's decisions at least he made the decision. At least his administration allowed my son to sleep at night. At least he allowed me not to have to think about our emergency evacuation plans daily. At least my son was not afraid to go into DC for a school field trip. I don’t know where you live but I’m on the front line and yes, those kinds of things make me feel safer if only because they make my son feel safer. By the way, were you aware that his father was working in a building across the street from the Pentagon on 9/11 and we couldn't find him for 8 hours as the city closed down. Yeah, it's personal for me.

I remember one of the first things we were taught in OBC (Officer Basic Course) was "right or wrong" make a decision: do something." Obama lacks the ability to review a situation and decide on an appropriate course of action in a timely manner. Thanks for reminding everyone that he’s never served a day in the military but expects to know how to run it. What a joke! Again that's the Community Organizer in him. He doesn't want to tick anyone off because he "might" need them down the line. I don’t care if you believe me or not but somewhere, sometime we are all going to have to pay for having this unqualified community organizer in the White House. In my humble opinion that price is going to be the blood of more of our civilians and the soldiers who protect us. It’s only a matter of time. Lisa
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:05 am

lowfog01 wrote:
rberq wrote:Well, it's true Obama has not yet put on a flight suit and strutted around on an aircraft carrier saying "mission accomplished" and "bring 'em on". And it's true he has not invaded any more countries where Al Queda and nuclear weapons were absent, on the grounds the country was full of both. And it's true he has not looked into Putin's eyes and seen his soul. (W must eat a lot of carrots, if he could see something that black.)


Gee, that's twice you've alluded to things Bush has done. When will you start looking at what Obama hasn’t done? That's ok, whether or not you or I agree with any or all of Bush's decisions at least he made the decision. At least his administration allowed my son to sleep at night. At least he allowed me not to have to think about our emergency evacuation plans daily. At least my son was not afraid to go into DC for a school field trip. I don’t know where you live but I’m on the front line and yes, those kinds of things make me feel safer if only because they make my son feel safer. By the way, were you aware that his father was working in a building across the street from the Pentagon on 9/11 and we couldn't find him for 8 hours as the city closed down. Yeah, it's personal for me.


I'm sorry your son feels more afraid.

What is it has Obama NOT done that frightens you?

Less than 30 days after entering office the Obama administration upped our troop levels in Afghanistan by 17,000. The Generals had been asking the previous administration for those troops in that theater for years, those requests fell on political deaf ears because Bush had told everyone we had won that war (why send more troops to a war you've won)?

Now there is a request for more troops again. Bush equivocated for years and NEVER made a decision, Obama has been equivocated for 3 months; and it's Obama who makes you nervous? There's also a lot going on now, the economy is in trouble, there's a potential for a H1N1 pandemic (I'll bet you $100 that H1N1 kills 10 times as many Americans this year as Al Quaeda does this year), while AQ is a threat to the US, it is not (nor has it ever been) the greatest threat. At the end of the day none of us are privy to the strategic plan to keep us safe from terrorists, we may see bits and pieces but without a broader view any criticism we make is based on the ignorance of incomplete information. The only thing we can judge is the results.

Here's something that should make you feel better. Am old friend of mine is an FBI agent, he says that operationally absolutely nothing has changed under the new administration.

Finally, I know you're worried so I put together a little chart for you of wartime CinC's, their veteran status, and the result of the war. I think you'll be pleased to discover that historically CinC's who have never served have had better wartime outcomes than CinC's who have served.

War of 1812, Madison was not a veteran, the result of the war was a stalemate

Mexican-American war, Polk was not a vet, the result was an American victory.

American civil war, Lincoln was not a veteran, the result of the was victory

Spanish American War, President McKinley was a vet of the civil war, the result was a victory

WW1, Wilson was not a vet, the result was victory

WW2, Roosevelt was not a vet, the result was victory

Korean War, Truman was a vet, the result was a standoff that continues to this day.

Vietnam, Kennedy was a vet, Johnson was a vet, Nixon was a vet, the result was a loss

The US was won 6 wars, lost 1, and had 2 stalemates. 5 of the 6 wins were under non-vets. The only loss was under veteran leadership.
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: rberq On: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:28 pm

lowfog01 wrote:... whether or not you or I agree with any or all of Bush's decisions at least he made the decision ... one of the first things we were taught in OBC (Officer Basic Course) was "right or wrong" make a decision: do something."

Right or wrong, yes, but there is some merit in being right. The time scale for an officer's decision in battle may be "immediate". It is not necessarily the same time scale for a President deciding what to do about two ...istans.
Waiting is hard, feeling insecure is hard. As a child I would look up whenever I heard a jet plane, wondering if it was delivering a nuclear bomb to my neighborhood. That was years upon years of waiting and insecurity -- probably for you too. We thought it was over, and now the whole terrorist thing has started it up again. The urge is to just do something, anything, but that's not necessarily the right course.
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: samhill On: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:51 am

I would much rather have a well thought out decision instead of a rash one. The war has become one that is simular to a cop being called to a domestic dispute, the couple can be ready to kill one another but as soon as a third party shows up they become united against the cop. Russia & others are now doing what we did to Russia by supplying the tribal insurgents who think that we are there to take their country. It`s a nasty mess that should have been finished a long time ago, theres no easy answer.
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:08 am

rberq wrote:
lowfog01 wrote:... whether or not you or I agree with any or all of Bush's decisions at least he made the decision ... one of the first things we were taught in OBC (Officer Basic Course) was "right or wrong" make a decision: do something."

Right or wrong, yes, but there is some merit in being right. The time scale for an officer's decision in battle may be "immediate". It is not necessarily the same time scale for a President deciding what to do about two ...istans.
Waiting is hard, feeling insecure is hard. As a child I would look up whenever I heard a jet plane, wondering if it was delivering a nuclear bomb to my neighborhood. That was years upon years of waiting and insecurity -- probably for you too. We thought it was over, and now the whole terrorist thing has started it up again. The urge is to just do something, anything, but that's not necessarily the right course.


A true statement - sometimes it is right to wait but from what I've read and seen from just keeping my eyes open this isn't one of those times. Waiting in this instance is making us weaker; the indecision is very clear to see. Right or wrong make a decision. Obama hand picked this general and he should listen to him instead of those people in his admisration that would have us wait to react to the attack that's sure to come. You don't win at football play a prevent offense. You always move forward on the attack.

Hey, what say we go back to the topic of this thread and look at what Obama's administration is doing to "fundalmentally transform" the United States into something it was never meant to be. Or do you think we have beaten the horse quite enough. Let's talk about the GM take over or the attempt to federalize the health care industry. Both of which have no standing under the Constitution. Lisa
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:16 pm

ErikLaurence wrote:WW2, Roosevelt was not a vet, the result was victory


Shouldn't the "W" go to Truman?

ErikLaurence wrote:Vietnam, Kennedy was a vet, Johnson was a vet, Nixon was a vet, the result was a loss


Also, shouldn't Eisenhower get the "L" on this one? If you stand by the previous example and FDR gets the "W" then Eisenhower should take the "blame" for 'Nam.

Also, you left out all the shadow wars waged over the years. That's a mixed bag to say the least.
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: rberq On: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:41 pm

lowfog01 wrote:... the attempt to federalize the health care industry [has] no standing under the Constitution.

Hmmmm. Meaning the constitution explicitly forbids federal involvement in such matters? Or meaning the constitution does not authorize federal involvement, therefore it's a matter left to the states?

Are Social Security and Medicare legitimate? How about the interstate highway system. How about federal grants to schools, federal contributions to unemployment payments, Head Start, and on and on and on? There are an awful lot of programs where the feds take our tax money, absorb considerable amounts for administration, then give us back what's left over so our congressmen and women can make press releases about the wonderful "grants" we are getting.
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:55 pm

rberq wrote:
lowfog01 wrote:... the attempt to federalize the health care industry [has] no standing under the Constitution.

Hmmmm. Meaning the constitution explicitly forbids federal involvement in such matters? Or meaning the constitution does not authorize federal involvement, therefore it's a matter left to the states?

Are Social Security and Medicare legitimate? How about the interstate highway system. How about federal grants to schools, federal contributions to unemployment payments, Head Start, and on and on and on? There are an awful lot of programs where the feds take our tax money, absorb considerable amounts for administration, then give us back what's left over so our congressmen and women can make press releases about the wonderful "grants" we are getting.



The founding fathers were also not big fans of a standing military.
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:50 pm

They often spoke of State Militia :

"We must train and classify the whole of our male citizens, and make military instruction a regular part of collegiate education. We can never be safe till this is done." --Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe, 1813.

"The Greeks and Romans had no standing armies, yet they defended themselves. The Greeks by their laws, and the Romans by the spirit of their people, took care to put into the hands of their rulers no such engine of oppression as a standing army. Their system was to make every man a soldier and oblige him to repair to the standard of his country whenever that was reared. This made them invincible; and the same remedy will make us so." --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Cooper, 1814.

Justice indeed, on our part, will save us from those wars which would have been produced by a contrary disposition. But how can we prevent those produced by the wrongs of other nati6ns? By putting ourselves in a condition to punish them. Weakness provokes insult and injury, while a condition to punish, often prevents them. -- Thomas Jefferson to John Jay, 1785

* So, have we found common ground on an issue? *
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Re: The article every American should read

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:29 pm

Black_And_Blue wrote:They often spoke of State Militia :

"We must train and classify the whole of our male citizens, and make military instruction a regular part of collegiate education. We can never be safe till this is done." --Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe, 1813.

"The Greeks and Romans had no standing armies, yet they defended themselves. The Greeks by their laws, and the Romans by the spirit of their people, took care to put into the hands of their rulers no such engine of oppression as a standing army. Their system was to make every man a soldier and oblige him to repair to the standard of his country whenever that was reared. This made them invincible; and the same remedy will make us so." --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Cooper, 1814.

Justice indeed, on our part, will save us from those wars which would have been produced by a contrary disposition. But how can we prevent those produced by the wrongs of other nati6ns? By putting ourselves in a condition to punish them. Weakness provokes insult and injury, while a condition to punish, often prevents them. -- Thomas Jefferson to John Jay, 1785

* So, have we found common ground on an issue? *


They were huge fans of the state militia. They were not at all fans of the standing federal army.

The militia act of 1903 essentiallt destroyed the state militias that the founder wanted to protect via the 2nd amendment.
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