In God We Still Trust

I still like the song

Read the last paragraph in letter 1

http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=64

BillMarti wrote:Read the last paragraph in letter 1

And War Criminal Bush, a professed Christian, is a fine example.

He kept us safe after 9/11 .... which can be directly connected to Bill Clinton's near dismantling of the military .... Unless you know of an attack that happened while I was sleeping?

rberq wrote:

BillMarti wrote:Read the last paragraph in letter 1

And War Criminal Bush, a professed Christian, is a fine example.

Professing and being one are 2 different things. There are many more nominal christians than biblical christians. And I'm sure the rest of our government didn't support it either?
Wasn't the messiah supposed to end the war a while ago? Close Gitmo? Get rid of the lobbyists? Stop the pork in bills? Reduce the deficit? Partisan cooperation? So don't throw stones they all need to be fired in Nov. 2010!

Don`t get me wrong here I don`t agree with everything thats going on in the Gov. but I do believe that B.O. is in the process of closeing Gitmo, ending the occupations & a few other things. Its gonna be kind of hard to be bi-partisan when shorty after you take office you have a party leader publicly say that his party is going to do nothing to help this president. The pork he should be using the line item veto on but then that kind of seals his fate of getting anything, & there is a lot of pork from both parties. Reduce the deficit HOW when the economy was fundamentaly sound for all those years the Bush-Co. went from a surplus to leading the country into ruin & all the blank checks that were written aren`t in yet. Getting rid of lobbyist, I`ve always been for that but I don`t know if thats even with-in his power. Your right its easy to throw stones but you should be sure they are thrown in the right direction.

SMITTY wrote:He kept us safe after 9/11

At the cost of our liberty.

Anyone who is whining now about health care reform being tyranny but was in favor of the patriot act is a partisan hack.

samhill wrote:Don`t get me wrong here I don`t agree with everything thats going on in the Gov. but I do believe that B.O. is in the process of closeing Gitmo, ending the occupations & a few other things. Its gonna be kind of hard to be bi-partisan when shorty after you take office you have a party leader publicly say that his party is going to do nothing to help this president. The pork he should be using the line item veto on but then that kind of seals his fate of getting anything, & there is a lot of pork from both parties. Reduce the deficit HOW when the economy was fundamentaly sound for all those years the Bush-Co. went from a surplus to leading the country into ruin & all the blank checks that were written aren`t in yet. Getting rid of lobbyist, I`ve always been for that but I don`t know if thats even with-in his power. Your right its easy to throw stones but you should be sure they are thrown in the right direction.

Clinton had a fleeting surplus only as a result of gutting the military. He was fortunate to enjoy the fruits of economic seeds planted during the RR years.

Spending in the Bush years will be exceeded by the current congress and Obama in less than one more year.

Our economy hasn't been "fundamentally sound" for fifty years or more. Deficit spending in excess of growth rates is not fundamentally sound.

Closing Gitmo is a mistake. You simply don't give the enemy the aid and comfort of citizens rights.

Obama is already equivocating with regard to war and his peace prize, classicly speaking out of both sides of his mouth.


Get rid of corporate and professional lobbyists? I agree!

rberq wrote:

BillMarti wrote:Read the last paragraph in letter 1

And War Criminal Bush, a professed Christian, is a fine example.

Are you not a Christian because you believe they establish a standard that cannot be met?


I am a Christian because I KNOW men cannot meet those standards. That is the point of faith in Christ-- salvation as a result of God's love despite our pathetic inability to meet the standards of God.

Do you condemn your child to suffering and death when they make an egregious error? No. You reprimand, teach, test, and revisit the mistake. All the while, you continue to love that child. Will the child make the same mistake? Sometimes.

That is the Christian's relationship with God. He is the father, we are the children.

mikeandgerry wrote:That is the Christian's relationship with God. He is the father, we are the children.

The child-protection agencies should be taking away a lot of Dad's children due to the disease and hunger he afflicts them with.

SMITTY wrote:He kept us safe after 9/11 .... which can be directly connected to Bill Clinton's near dismantling of the military .... Unless you know of an attack that happened while I was sleeping?

Do you give Clinton credit for "keeping us safe" from 1991 to 2001?

Not too many Presidents build up the military in peace time, except maybe Reagan it was he I believe that first started counting the military as being "employed" his way of lowering the number of unemployed. And mike&gerry a fleeting surplus is one that came only after getting rid of the debt & was only short term because of Bushes spending, if you remember Clinton wanted to use that surplus to start paying back funds "borrowed" from the yearly ss surplus.

rberq wrote:You have cause and effect reversed. Basic morality is inherent in humans in society, probably as an evolutionary trait. Religion was invented to formalize the morality. Religion came from morality, not the other way around.

We can trust in god all we want, but he isn't there, we just invented him. If you think separation of church and state is being carried to an extreme, take a look at Islamist states governed by Sharia law.

You're kidding right???? If you think man is basically moral on his/her own put a few on an island with limited resources and see what happens. 5000 years ago man was no different than most animals - might made right and the fittest survived. Man has become moral over time as a result of laws and cognitive evolution. Religion with it's general belief in an afterlife (IF you live a moral life), played a major role in this.

And one does not have to go to the extreme of the islamic states to justify keeping religion at arms length from government. That's the slippery slope argument which is always used AND always wrong because it denies people are capable of moderation.

I agree totally, the constitution merely didn't want the government to have an "official" religion. This whole current interpretation of a separation of church and state is an artificial construct perpetrated by a bunch of left wingnuts in black robes known as the supreme court. Just nine people whose opinions count more than mine or yours.

i am all for religion - for someone else

gerard wrote:

rberq wrote:... morality is inherent in humans in society, probably as an evolutionary trait ...

... You're kidding right???? ... Man has become moral over time as a result of laws and cognitive evolution ...

You are saying just what I said, only you said it a little better. Humans cooperated (became "moral") because they benefited from societal stability. Religion had nothing to do with it.

Religion originally was about explaining things that humans didn't understand, and pleading with (or bribing) the gods not to smite us. Religion as morality came later, and its priests were (still are) frequently scam artists who see it as a way to do little work and live off the rest of society.