EFM = Electric Fireman (new project alert)

EFM = Electric Fireman (new project alert)

PostBy: europachris On: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:45 pm

I've got myself a new adoption from the "pound" - and it looks about as nasty as my Keystoker did so hopefully it will turn out as well in the end.

Thanks to Greg (LsFarm) who did the legwork, I was able to bring home an EFM 350 boiler top and a DL-30 Iron Fireman stoker last weekend. The stoker is cosmetically challenged from sitting in a barn the last, oh, maybe 50 years, but otherwise it's solid and needs nothing more than a good cleaning and paint. The boiler is similarly ugly, but internally looks new and aside from the DHW coil area needing attention, it's also solid.

I plan to fabricate a base and incorporate the stoker in the traditional method for bituminous burning (setting it in a refractory hearth). Once I started measuring and calculating, the inside dimensions of the boiler are a little on the small side but will work. I'd like a little more area around the sides of the tuyeres to allow the ash and clinker to collect, but we'll be fine. The overall furnace volume matches well to the requirements for my planned burning rates. The biggest challenge will be how to access the fire for cleaning. The little round EFM door won't work out real well, so I'll need to incorporate a door at the level of the fire. I plan to install a door in the base just above the refractory level to just below the boiler and insulate the back of it with firebrick or similar. I can then place a rectangular ash bucket right up to the base and use the clinker tongs and an ash hoe to pull the refuse right into the bucket.

The boiler will need the DHW area basically cut out completely and since I'll not be using a coil, I will just weld in a solid plate. I plan to use a cutoff wheel in my circular saw to get straight, slag-free cuts and a similar wheel in the angle grinder if needed in the corners.

The setup will be installed in our detached garage and push water 150' each way through 1" insulated pex to a 16"x18" exchanger in the house furnace. It looks like I'll need a Taco 011 to handle the head/BTU requirements and use a small Taco on a separate zone for the garage heat. I'm going to use an industrial temperature controller with an RTD probe/thermowell for water control and a PLC for idle timer, stoker control and zoning as well as error/alarm handling. I have 8 conductor cable running to the house for t-stat as well as status and alarm notification from the PLC. The temp. controller has multiple relay outputs for alarms (high and low temp) which can be used for redundancy and safety thru the PLC.

It's not going to be running this season - I have a lot of work to do on just the boiler and stoker, and THEN I have to do all the plumbing work from the boiler to the stub of pex in the garage and then the stub of pex in the house to the furnace.

Chris
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Area marked in orange needs to be replaced - don't think it leaks but it's THIN.
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europachris
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 350/Iron Fireman
Stove/Furnace Model: Custom bituminous burner

Re: EFM = Electric Fireman (new project alert)

PostBy: Richard S. On: Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:35 pm

europachris wrote:The boiler will need the DHW area basically cut out completely and since I'll not be using a coil, I will just weld in a solid plate.


I believe that is one design change they made in the last 50 years as that rot is apparently common in that area. If you want to keep the DHW and I don't know why you wouldn't I saw a replacement part when I visited the EFM warehouse that upgrades it to new design specifically made for fixing that.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: EFM = Electric Fireman (new project alert)

PostBy: europachris On: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:16 pm

Richard S. wrote:I believe that is one design change they made in the last 50 years as that rot is apparently common in that area. If you want to keep the DHW and I don't know why you wouldn't I saw a replacement part when I visited the EFM warehouse that upgrades it to new design specifically made for fixing that.


Greg had one of those repair plates for his boiler (also a 350 in the same shape). But, since I have no need for a DHW coil I'm just going to weld it up. My garage doesn't have running water, and the boiler system will be filled from the house side thru a pressure reducing valve. The only way I'll get DHW is a plate exchanger or indirect HW heater, which might be a future option.
europachris
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 350/Iron Fireman
Stove/Furnace Model: Custom bituminous burner

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: EFM = Electric Fireman (new project alert)

PostBy: coal berner On: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:29 pm

europachris wrote:
Richard S. wrote:I believe that is one design change they made in the last 50 years as that rot is apparently common in that area. If you want to keep the DHW and I don't know why you wouldn't I saw a replacement part when I visited the EFM warehouse that upgrades it to new design specifically made for fixing that.


Greg had one of those repair plates for his boiler (also a 350 in the same shape). But, since I have no need for a DHW coil I'm just going to weld it up. My garage doesn't have running water, and the boiler system will be filled from the house side thru a pressure reducing valve. The only way I'll get DHW is a plate exchanger or indirect HW heater, which might be a future option.

You don't have to weld a plate on it just use the gasket Greg got and bolt the plate on that way if you ever want to put a water coil in you can by taking the plate off and bolting on the coil And what do you mean that is in ruff shape you have
not seen a ruff boiler yet there are a few hundred/ thousand put back in service that was alot worst then that one
Last edited by coal berner on Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: EFM = Electric Fireman (new project alert)

PostBy: coal berner On: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:31 pm

Richard S. wrote:
europachris wrote:The boiler will need the DHW area basically cut out completely and since I'll not be using a coil, I will just weld in a solid plate.


I believe that is one design change they made in the last 50 years as that rot is apparently common in that area. If you want to keep the DHW and I don't know why you wouldn't I saw a replacement part when I visited the EFM warehouse that upgrades it to new design specifically made for fixing that.

He don't need to go threw them the place where that boiler came from as three times more Parts then efm has in there warehouse he knows where to go if he need parts ;)
Last edited by coal berner on Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: EFM = Electric Fireman (new project alert)

PostBy: coal berner On: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:00 pm

europachris wrote:I've got myself a new adoption from the "pound" - and it looks about as nasty as my Keystoker did so hopefully it will turn out as well in the end.

Thanks to Greg (LsFarm) who did the legwork, I was able to bring home an EFM 350 boiler top and a DL-30 Iron Fireman stoker last weekend. The stoker is cosmetically challenged from sitting in a barn the last, oh, maybe 50 years, but otherwise it's solid and needs nothing more than a good cleaning and paint. The boiler is similarly ugly, but internally looks new and aside from the DHW coil area needing attention, it's also solid.

I plan to fabricate a base and incorporate the stoker in the traditional method for bituminous burning (setting it in a refractory hearth). Once I started measuring and calculating, the inside dimensions of the boiler are a little on the small side but will work. I'd like a little more area around the sides of the tuyeres to allow the ash and clinker to collect, but we'll be fine. The overall furnace volume matches well to the requirements for my planned burning rates. The biggest challenge will be how to access the fire for cleaning. The little round EFM door won't work out real well, so I'll need to incorporate a door at the level of the fire. I plan to install a door in the base just above the refractory level to just below the boiler and insulate the back of it with firebrick or similar. I can then place a rectangular ash bucket right up to the base and use the clinker tongs and an ash hoe to pull the refuse right into the bucket.

The boiler will need the DHW area basically cut out completely and since I'll not be using a coil, I will just weld in a solid plate. I plan to use a cutoff wheel in my circular saw to get straight, slag-free cuts and a similar wheel in the angle grinder if needed in the corners.

The setup will be installed in our detached garage and push water 150' each way through 1" insulated pex to a 16"x18" exchanger in the house furnace. It looks like I'll need a Taco 011 to handle the head/BTU requirements and use a small Taco on a separate zone for the garage heat. I'm going to use an industrial temperature controller with an RTD probe/thermowell for water control and a PLC for idle timer, stoker control and zoning as well as error/alarm handling. I have 8 conductor cable running to the house for t-stat as well as status and alarm notification from the PLC. The temp. controller has multiple relay outputs for alarms (high and low temp) which can be used for redundancy and safety thru the PLC.

It's not going to be running this season - I have a lot of work to do on just the boiler and stoker, and THEN I have to do all the plumbing work from the boiler to the stub of pex in the garage and then the stub of pex in the house to the furnace.

Chris

350 Sq boiler top 23 5/8 " wide X 27 3/4" tall X 32 1/2 Long weight 575 LBS
520 boiler is only a few inches bigger 25 1/4" X wide 28 3/8" tall X 36 7/8 " long Weight 750 LBS
Both will take/ fit a 14.5" pot or a S-22 pot ring 15.5"
The pot goes threw the base on a efm the top of pot sits 18.5" below the top of the boiler and the sides front and back
of the pot will be 4.5" to 5" from the boiler body what you need to do is build your base higher then a standard one so
you can fit the iron fireman inside and keep the distance betweem the top of your pot to the top of the boiler
You will also need to keep the front back and sides distance from your pot .
Here is the size for a sandard 350 base might help you out on how big you need to make yours
Greg also has Pics of the bases
24 1/8" tall X 24 1/8" wide X 32 1/2" long
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: EFM = Electric Fireman (new project alert)

PostBy: coal berner On: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:07 pm

europachris wrote:I've got myself a new adoption from the "pound" - and it looks about as nasty as my Keystoker did so hopefully it will turn out as well in the end.

Thanks to Greg (LsFarm) who did the legwork, I was able to bring home an EFM 350 boiler top and a DL-30 Iron Fireman stoker last weekend. The stoker is cosmetically challenged from sitting in a barn the last, oh, maybe 50 years, but otherwise it's solid and needs nothing more than a good cleaning and paint. The boiler is similarly ugly, but internally looks new and aside from the DHW coil area needing attention, it's also solid.

I plan to fabricate a base and incorporate the stoker in the traditional method for bituminous burning (setting it in a refractory hearth). Once I started measuring and calculating, the inside dimensions of the boiler are a little on the small side but will work. I'd like a little more area around the sides of the tuyeres to allow the ash and clinker to collect, but we'll be fine. The overall furnace volume matches well to the requirements for my planned burning rates. The biggest challenge will be how to access the fire for cleaning. The little round EFM door won't work out real well, so I'll need to incorporate a door at the level of the fire. I plan to install a door in the base just above the refractory level to just below the boiler and insulate the back of it with firebrick or similar. I can then place a rectangular ash bucket right up to the base and use the clinker tongs and an ash hoe to pull the refuse right into the bucket.

The boiler will need the DHW area basically cut out completely and since I'll not be using a coil, I will just weld in a solid plate. I plan to use a cutoff wheel in my circular saw to get straight, slag-free cuts and a similar wheel in the angle grinder if needed in the corners.

The setup will be installed in our detached garage and push water 150' each way through 1" insulated pex to a 16"x18" exchanger in the house furnace. It looks like I'll need a Taco 011 to handle the head/BTU requirements and use a small Taco on a separate zone for the garage heat. I'm going to use an industrial temperature controller with an RTD probe/thermowell for water control and a PLC for idle timer, stoker control and zoning as well as error/alarm handling. I have 8 conductor cable running to the house for t-stat as well as status and alarm notification from the PLC. The temp. controller has multiple relay outputs for alarms (high and low temp) which can be used for redundancy and safety thru the PLC.

It's not going to be running this season - I have a lot of work to do on just the boiler and stoker, and THEN I have to do all the plumbing work from the boiler to the stub of pex in the garage and then the stub of pex in the house to the furnace.

Chris

If you wanted it refurb you would of got it refurb but then the price would of been three times as much ;)
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: EFM = Electric Fireman (new project alert)

PostBy: coal berner On: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:15 pm

europachris wrote:I've got myself a new adoption from the "pound" - and it looks about as nasty as my Keystoker did so hopefully it will turn out as well in the end.

Thanks to Greg (LsFarm) who did the legwork, I was able to bring home an EFM 350 boiler top and a DL-30 Iron Fireman stoker last weekend. The stoker is cosmetically challenged from sitting in a barn the last, oh, maybe 50 years, but otherwise it's solid and needs nothing more than a good cleaning and paint. The boiler is similarly ugly, but internally looks new and aside from the DHW coil area needing attention, it's also solid.

I plan to fabricate a base and incorporate the stoker in the traditional method for bituminous burning (setting it in a refractory hearth). Once I started measuring and calculating, the inside dimensions of the boiler are a little on the small side but will work. I'd like a little more area around the sides of the tuyeres to allow the ash and clinker to collect, but we'll be fine. The overall furnace volume matches well to the requirements for my planned burning rates. The biggest challenge will be how to access the fire for cleaning. The little round EFM door won't work out real well, so I'll need to incorporate a door at the level of the fire. I plan to install a door in the base just above the refractory level to just below the boiler and insulate the back of it with firebrick or similar. I can then place a rectangular ash bucket right up to the base and use the clinker tongs and an ash hoe to pull the refuse right into the bucket.

The boiler will need the DHW area basically cut out completely and since I'll not be using a coil, I will just weld in a solid plate. I plan to use a cutoff wheel in my circular saw to get straight, slag-free cuts and a similar wheel in the angle grinder if needed in the corners.

The setup will be installed in our detached garage and push water 150' each way through 1" insulated pex to a 16"x18" exchanger in the house furnace. It looks like I'll need a Taco 011 to handle the head/BTU requirements and use a small Taco on a separate zone for the garage heat. I'm going to use an industrial temperature controller with an RTD probe/thermowell for water control and a PLC for idle timer, stoker control and zoning as well as error/alarm handling. I have 8 conductor cable running to the house for t-stat as well as status and alarm notification from the PLC. The temp. controller has multiple relay outputs for alarms (high and low temp) which can be used for redundancy and safety thru the PLC.

It's not going to be running this season - I have a lot of work to do on just the boiler and stoker, and THEN I have to do all the plumbing work from the boiler to the stub of pex in the garage and then the stub of pex in the house to the furnace.

Chris

To clean these boiler you go threw the rear flue with the SQ or round brush the stack pipe has to come off anyway to clean out that as well
As far as your ash removal feed from one side of the base and take out the ash on the other side of base you can make your base anyway you want you can feed from the side and ash threw the front to or feed from front and remove from
side all you need is heigth on your base to make this work
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: EFM = Electric Fireman (new project alert)

PostBy: whistlenut On: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:50 pm

These guys haven't even seen 'bad shape'. When you stick your bare hand through the side of a boiler, that is in bad shape. When the boiler is hanging by the feed and return piping because the rest is totally gone, that is in bad shape.
Don't they have any sandblasters out there? Greg will have to take you for an 'awareness' orientation flight to include 6 or 7 G's, that should smarten you up as to what is 'bad'. Especially for the seat of your pants. :shock: :mad3: :eek2: :flush:
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: EFM = Electric Fireman (new project alert)

PostBy: Sting On: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:34 pm

Wonderful old Iron Fireman -- I grew up watching my dad shovel coal into one just like that. That was our job after supper. 8-) The Iron fireman out in the shop feed itself from a feed system under a 5 ton bin.

What did you find for a good source of coal?
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: EFM = Electric Fireman (new project alert)

PostBy: europachris On: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:49 pm

Thanks for the info and reality checks! :P Don't get me wrong - I'm very happy with the boiler (and the price)! I have about 0.01% of the experience Coal Berner has, so my reference of "bad" is only guided by what I'm used to. Since my job is taking nice clean sheets of A36 plate steel and turning it into brand new forklifts, anything that isn't clean, painted, and rust free is "bad", LOL. :lol: But it's also handy to be able to laser cut, form, and weld up to 1/2" thick.

It would be a simple matter of making a replacement DHW plate with weld studs and weld that in and then make a blank-off plate to seal it off for future use. Does the official EFM plate weld over the original hole after the studs are removed or does the old area get removed and the new plate flush welded? I'd prefer to cut out the entire "thin" area and flush weld a new plate after it's fit into place.

As far as the base goes, we're on the same page. I've been laying out some ideas in AutoCad, and plan to incorporate an access panel to allow cleaning the heat exchanger area without flue pipe removal since I expect more frequent cleaning with bituminous. I measured the inside of the boiler at 19"x19"x19" (LxWxH). The DL-30 has a 12 7/8" pot diameter (by the spec sheet), so I have about 3" at the smallest dimension on each side, and more in each corner. I'm currently thinking between 6 and 8" from the refractory hearth up to the bottom of the boiler. That should leave enough room for an access door 5 or 6" tall to clean the fire. I want to keep the height to a minimum so the heat goes into the water, not the base.

The other thought would be to raise up the stoker 8"-12" and then install it EFM-style and have room for a shallow ash pan underneath. But I don't think our coal will work well in that method of firing without a Prill-style rotating burn pot to break up the ash.

I'll be looking for a lot of advice from the experts here as my hydronic plumbing experience is about zero. I've lived in a few homes 20+ years ago with either oil/hot water or oil/steam heat, but that doesn't really count. But I can sweat copper and/or screw iron pipe together. I do better with the electrical/controls stuff and steel fab.
europachris
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 350/Iron Fireman
Stove/Furnace Model: Custom bituminous burner

Re: EFM = Electric Fireman (new project alert)

PostBy: europachris On: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:55 pm

Sting wrote:Wonderful old Iron Fireman -- I grew up watching my dad shovel coal into one just like that. That was our job after supper. 8-) The Iron fireman out in the shop feed itself from a feed system under a 5 ton bin.

What did you find for a good source of coal?


I've not sourced any coal yet as I'm not looking to "smoke test" the setup until next year. But I do have a neighbor with a trucking company and could probably get him to make a run with his dump semi for 6 or 8 tons for me when I'm ready. Knight Hawk coal looks like a good source with washed stoker available.
europachris
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 350/Iron Fireman
Stove/Furnace Model: Custom bituminous burner

Re: EFM = Electric Fireman (new project alert)

PostBy: Sting On: Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:15 pm

Knight Hawk coal

Nice web site

the place is only about 400 + miles south of me :cry:
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: EFM = Electric Fireman (new project alert)

PostBy: europachris On: Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:36 pm

Sting wrote:the place is only about 400 + miles south of me :cry:


Well, "only" 300 miles south of me....but then I drove 720 miles round trip to go get my boiler/stoker.......

but 300 miles through the middle of Illinois has to be like solitary confinement in prison.....it's just a flat, featureless, boring drive of nothingness.
europachris
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 350/Iron Fireman
Stove/Furnace Model: Custom bituminous burner

Re: EFM = Electric Fireman (new project alert)

PostBy: Sting On: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:16 pm

I am sure by viewing the posted pics of your new prize-- that the boring day trip was worth it. :)

I would have that bad boy hot by mid December.
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Visit Lehigh Anthracite