What Would You Like Changed/Added on the LL Website?

Forum rules
ATTN Business owners: You may advertise your companies coal related products and services for free in this section of the forum. Use the "Contact Admin" link at the bottom of any page or send a private message to Richard S. to become a "Verified Business Rep" so you can start new topics here.

Also note you are encouraged to respond to topics started by other members in other forums about your business. You may also start topics in other forums about your products if they are informational. As an example if you are a manufacturer of coal boilers you may start a topic in the boiler section on how to service it.
 
User avatar
Flyer5
Member
Posts: 10376
Joined: Sun. Oct. 21, 2007 4:23 pm
Location: Montrose PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer
Contact:

Post by Flyer5 » Wed. Nov. 11, 2009 7:52 pm

Freddy wrote:I'd like to see a little button at the bottom of the home page that says "Everyone named Fred get's a free Pioneer". <evil grin>



OK... back to that button....... :)
We can do that as long as you are willing to pay the shipping and handling charges .. :D :D


 
User avatar
009to090
Member
Posts: 5104
Joined: Fri. Jan. 30, 2009 10:02 am
Location: Live Oak, FL

Post by 009to090 » Wed. Nov. 11, 2009 7:54 pm

Flyer5 wrote:
Freddy wrote:I'd like to see a little button at the bottom of the home page that says "Everyone named Fred get's a free Pioneer". <evil grin>
OK... back to that button....... :)
We can do that as long as you are willing to pay the shipping and handling charges .. :D :D
I'll drive there to pick it up! :D ;)
Chris F. (Fred)

 
User avatar
Flyer5
Member
Posts: 10376
Joined: Sun. Oct. 21, 2007 4:23 pm
Location: Montrose PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer
Contact:

Post by Flyer5 » Wed. Nov. 11, 2009 7:58 pm

DVC500 at last wrote:
Flyer5 wrote: We can do that as long as you are willing to pay the shipping and handling charges .. :D :D
I'll drive there to pick it up! :D ;)
Chris F. (Fred)
:D :D :D :D Good one but we would still have to handle it at some point .

 
User avatar
Yanche
Member
Posts: 3026
Joined: Fri. Dec. 23, 2005 12:45 pm
Location: Sykesville, Maryland
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Post by Yanche » Wed. Nov. 11, 2009 11:00 pm

I've restrained from commenting on the LL website until I could compose a more general response. As many have pointed out there are many aspects of the LL website that beg for improvement. The many suggestions are helpful but the entire site needs to be revamped.

Web sites are a reflection of the company behind it. A clunky site reflects poorly on the company. It may have good products or service
but the new viewer and potential customer gets frustrated and just goes away. Creating a great web site is difficult. It takes a combination of graphic arts and technical excellence. It's best left to experts. Using the web as an information medium and/or advertising tool is in it's infancy. Printed media has been around for centuries. The "web" is a baby. What you can do with web pages and it's use to promote business is still evolving.

I've taken several college level web design classes, both credit and non-credit classes. Some taught by former print graphic artists, some taught by software types. What I conclude is there are two types of web page authors, the technical software expert and the print media graphics artist. Neither can create a great attention getting business web page alone. It takes a combination of the two. The technical expert knows how to do it but doesn't know the human visual factors. The graphics artist is just the opposite. I have some expensive web design software but by no means consider myself capable of creating a great web page. I have engineering technical skills not the necessary graphic artist skills. Rarely is the engineering brain and the artistic brain in the same head. :-) Take a look at the following web page link:

http://behnkes.com/website/

It's for Behnke Nurseries Co., a old local famous nursery, garden center and landscaper. It's what I consider an excellent business web site.
The "home" page grabs your attention with lots of visuals and navigation around the site is institutive. The banner bar at the top adds just enough "gee wizz" drop downs to be interesting. Above all it presents a lot of information that keeps the viewer interested without endless page navigation. Technically it uses all the bells and whistles, custom fonts, java script, flash automation, etc. The "buy online" feature redirects a customer to a order service company. It may look like a "Behnke" site but it's really a provider of web ordering services. They also provide the payment processing via a secure server. Keeps you out of the potential credit card records being stolen problem.

So what to do? I would first determine what I want the LL web site to do? Describe products, compare product features, product sales, company history, download product manuals, repair part ordering, etc. Then I would surf web and find business sites that most closely meet the needs. Usually a web site lists the site author. Contact the author and get a price quote. Expect to pay thousands especially if it has dynamic content. Look at the web author's sample web site portfolio. Ask them if the have graphics artists and what web authoring software they use. Ask if they validate the web pages with the World Wide Web Consortium <http://www.w3.org/> Call their reference clients and ask them how happy they are with what was created for them.

Don't try to create a web site on your own. It's too much of a learning curve to do it right. Spend your time on designing and building excellent coal burning products. Don't host a web site on your own computers. Web hosting services are comparatively cheap and it's one less headache for you. Plan on providing lots of photos and product descriptions to the web author. While it might be tempting to create your own web site, don't. Instead look at it as a tool, an investment that's bringing in new customers and keeping the old ones happy.

 
User avatar
traderfjp
Member
Posts: 1801
Joined: Wed. Apr. 19, 2006 10:32 pm
Location: New York

Post by traderfjp » Wed. Nov. 11, 2009 11:36 pm

Yanche: I think your post sums it up very well. I would just debate the fact that most artists today do have HTML programming because it's required to get hired at a progressive, successful company. They need to be able to code by hand too but some publishers are happy with adobe Dreamweaver skills. I ran a successful site and have the skills to program a site and can do very good graphics but in the end a real artists blows me away. When I had my site we used an incredible artist who could cookup graphics that were mind blowing. He was kept busy by many of the leading software publishers. He was always spot on with his color palletes, themes and created dazzling sites. Too bad he was a flake. Although, LL sells its stoves through its dealers the website is incredibly important to the final sale. I remember shopping for a coal stove. At the time I didn't know this site existed and my dealer didn't carry LL stoves so LL was not an option. Anyway, I went to all the websites of the mfg's. who sold coal stoves so I could do more research on my own. If I had found the LL website and it had detailed pics and videos showing me why their stoves have a superior design and how their automatic thermostat makes owning a coal stove an enjoyable, comfortable experience I may have been swayed to try to locate a dealer in driving distance. I remember calling Alaska and while they aren't rude they aren't that chatty either. Then one day I had a hopper fire and called Jerry. He spent a long time on the phone explaining how my stove worked and what to do. From that day on I bought any part I needed from LL and always recommended them.

 
User avatar
Richard S.
Mayor
Posts: 15184
Joined: Fri. Oct. 01, 2004 8:35 pm
Location: NEPA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Post by Richard S. » Wed. Nov. 11, 2009 11:46 pm

Yanche wrote:The banner bar at the top adds just enough "gee wizz" drop downs to be interesting.
The problem with drop down menus is they either rely on CSS or Javascript to function. Neither is reliable, CSS presents cross browser compatibility issues and JS breaks if the user doesn't have it enabled which presents a lot of accessibility problems too. Simple example from this site is smiley insertion and BBcode insertion breaks if JS is not enabled.
Yanche wrote:custom fonts, java script, flash automation, etc
Keep in mind if the font is not installed on the users computer it will either degrade to the secondary font you can provide in the CSS or the browser default. My opinion about flash and JS is that it's great for many things like video with Flash but it should be used only where it's needed and not because you can. When you're considering using JS or flash you first have to ask yourself, can I do this with standard HTML? -or- Does this really add value to this page. If you can't justify it's use then it shouldn't be used.

 
User avatar
traderfjp
Member
Posts: 1801
Joined: Wed. Apr. 19, 2006 10:32 pm
Location: New York

Post by traderfjp » Thu. Nov. 12, 2009 12:18 am

Richard: I remember the days of seeing 2 links for most website. One that supplied graphics and one that only served up text. Now with broadband and fast computers developers are using flash, macromedia director, video, etc. to create dazzling sites. I have several browsers loaded and there are times when I want to checkout, after a purchase or use a function on a site, and have to load another browser to get things to work. I agree that HTML is universal and while there may be slight formatting issues between browsers I still wouldn't program or design a site in this way. There is software that can detect a user's browser and then load the appropriate page. If I was designing the LL site I wouldn't make it too flashy but I would suggest creating a theme and using a pallete that melds well with that theme. After that I would mostly concentrate on selling the product. Nice high res. photos of each stove with multiple views inside and out. I would also create videos showcasing the stove in operation, the hopper being loaded, the ash pan being emptied, etc. I would also have video of testimonials of their stoves and why coal is a great alternative energy to oil and gas. I might even have a model walk on the screen welcoming the user and giving an overview of what is on the site. No offense to the LL people (I'm not or never will be a yes man) but the site right now looks like a friend with minimal computer skills slapped it together. It will serve but it could be so much more. Take a look at Harman and tell me that it isn't a 100 times better graphically: http://www.harmanstoves.com/Browse/Stoves.aspx?cat=stoves

I especially like the photo (idea) gallery that sells the stove to women. Screaming: It doesn't have to look ugly in the house ladies.


 
User avatar
Richard S.
Mayor
Posts: 15184
Joined: Fri. Oct. 01, 2004 8:35 pm
Location: NEPA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Post by Richard S. » Thu. Nov. 12, 2009 12:27 am

traderfjp wrote:Now with broadband and fast computers developers are using flash, macromedia director, video, etc. to create dazzling sites.
You can make some pretty dazzling sites without all that stuff albeit not quite as interactive. One thing you have to consider foremost is your audience, if you're creating a site for a band then adding some razzle dazzle isn't so much of an issue as long as it's done right.

 
User avatar
009to090
Member
Posts: 5104
Joined: Fri. Jan. 30, 2009 10:02 am
Location: Live Oak, FL

Post by 009to090 » Thu. Nov. 12, 2009 7:45 am

Richard S. wrote:
traderfjp wrote:Now with broadband and fast computers developers are using flash, macromedia director, video, etc. to create dazzling sites.
You can make some pretty dazzling sites without all that stuff albeit not quite as interactive. One thing you have to consider foremost is your audience, if you're creating a site for a band then adding some razzle dazzle isn't so much of an issue as long as it's done right.
Keep in mind, not everyone has or can afford broadband. "Keep it Simple" :idea:

 
User avatar
Yanche
Member
Posts: 3026
Joined: Fri. Dec. 23, 2005 12:45 pm
Location: Sykesville, Maryland
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Post by Yanche » Thu. Nov. 12, 2009 9:16 am

Any company in the Web page development business has long ago adopted high end Web page creation tools like Dream weaver. It's the one I have. The version is not current but still very useful. The issue of browser brand and version compatibility has largely been solved by the old versions dying off and the ability of the software to determine what's missing and adjust appropriately. Any hand coding is done by a expert either at the Web tool vendors tech support department or for large firms by their in-house expert. Custom Style Sheets (CSS) are very important to Web developers because it allows them to create web sites that can be easily customized to individual customers. In the ideal case making the customer cost lower.

What LL or any company needs to do is to decide how a web site fits into their business model and what need will it fulfill. Then hire an expert. You wouldn't want a student welder welding stoves, why would you want student web designer? Web page creation is not a core skill requirement for designing, building and servicing coal burning products. It will be enough of a task getting the photos, videos, how to procedures, etc. to the Web page author. All the things no Web page author can be reasonably expected to do.

Those with marginal Web access will just have to select and buy products the old fashion way, go to their dealer or use the telephone. They may not be the target customers any way.

 
User avatar
traderfjp
Member
Posts: 1801
Joined: Wed. Apr. 19, 2006 10:32 pm
Location: New York

Post by traderfjp » Thu. Nov. 12, 2009 3:53 pm

If someone can't afford broadband then I'm not sure they would be looking for a new stove. If a company wants to save money then why not use a student. There are some excellent student designers out there. I wouldn't hesitate to use one. When I was first starting out in 99 we designed a site that was way ahead of its time and I didn't have that much experience. For examle we had instant messaging for our members. This was a new concept at the time. We also had a chatroom with a live attendant and some other niffy features that set us apart from the competition.

Also, there is still a lot of compatibility and formatting issues between browsers. I enounter them quite often. LL isn't going to need a website that will needs constant maitenance so they can find someone who can do the designing and the coding. It's not too difficult. Obviously the owners should have the overal vision but the designer should be able to add the eye candy, etc.

 
Matthaus
Member
Posts: 1923
Joined: Mon. Oct. 02, 2006 8:59 am
Location: Berwick, PA and Ormand Beach FL

Post by Matthaus » Wed. Nov. 18, 2009 5:20 pm

I've finally had a chance to take a good look at the posts, thanks to you all for your well thought out, constructive and helpful advise. We are in the process of determining our requirements, and as already has been said that is where any good design starts and ends, requirements, requirements, requirements. :lol:

Once we figure out what we are tryin to accomplish we wil figure out the strategy for getting there, thanks again everyone, you have all been most helpful! :)

 
User avatar
Cold_Mainer
Member
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat. Jun. 28, 2008 2:32 pm
Location: Central Maine
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Pocono BV 90,000 BTU
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Post by Cold_Mainer » Sat. Nov. 28, 2009 7:52 pm

Just looked at the site. Yup.........needs some work. I would say this is a canned template from an online company.

Its hard sometimes being a business owner, keeping the books, making stoves......put down the welder and grab FrontPage or Dreamweaver and then paint Shop Pro or,ugh, Photo Shop. Some of the newer web authoring tools were not made for you and I. I still use Frontage 2002 and turn out decent sites.

Don't take these comments to heart but I agree that you need something that better represents the fine products you are selling. It will take some time to put a decent site together and you may have to fork out some coin to get one. Sounds like some web developers on this forum so it may be a good place to start asking some questions and getting some prices. I'll bet you'd get some free pointers here as well.

Feel free to Pm me if you want some ideas........no charge for talking.

Steve

 
User avatar
Flyer5
Member
Posts: 10376
Joined: Sun. Oct. 21, 2007 4:23 pm
Location: Montrose PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer
Contact:

Post by Flyer5 » Sun. Nov. 29, 2009 6:42 am

Sting wrote:I would change the recommended power vent

The squirrel cage fan of the SWG power vent tends to easily plug from the soot of solid fuel burning

http://www.fieldcontrols.com/venting.php

I would recommend a better power vent option as

TJERNLUND SS2 (not the SS1) side shot with its self-cleaning impeller for draft

http://www.tjernlund.com/oilsidewall.htm

But you mileage may vary
I have looked at them but the problem is the limited applications . Looks to me if you are installing in a basement and your joists are running the correct way they may be fine. With that being so limited not sure if there would be enough interest to warrant us getting UL testing done with our products . Our PVs are UL tested and approved with all our stoves except the Hyfire II because the SWG4 is only good to 160k btus . All of our stoves are UL including the Hyfire and the new 110k Pocono . Thanks ,Dave

 
User avatar
ErikLaurence
Member
Posts: 842
Joined: Thu. Oct. 09, 2008 9:19 am
Location: Midcoast Maine

Post by ErikLaurence » Sun. Nov. 29, 2009 7:47 am

You might also think of using a hosted blog engine to drive your site Something like wordpress or squarespace. Blog based web sites have great google fu.

From a content standpoint you need more photos both of the stoves in the showroom and installed models. If you look at the pictures on the site the Hyfire looks like it's the same size as the Econo.

You should put the segments from your install DVD up on YouTube and embed the clips in your site


Post Reply

Return to “Sales Announcements & Other Information From Business's”