Not to Happy With My Harmon Mark II

 
titleist1
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Post by titleist1 » Mon. Dec. 07, 2009 9:48 pm

I am sure you will burn less coal and get a longer burn time with the baro damper than without. The stove will work fine without one, I ran my stove without for about 5 years when I was burning 75% wood to 25% coal. As I got older and didn't crave the wood exercise any more I started burning more and more coal and less and less wood. I am now about 90% coal and 10% wood. I installed the baro and got about 5 more hours of burn time than I had been getting and much more even heat output from the stove.


 
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cybdav
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Post by cybdav » Mon. Dec. 07, 2009 9:51 pm

Do you have to uninstall the baro for burning wood or is there a manual override?

I am probably going to install a baro.

 
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Post by titleist1 » Mon. Dec. 07, 2009 10:19 pm

My only manual override is when starting the stove and I put aluminum foil over the baro. I only do that so any smoke that happens during start up is encouraged to go up the chimney rather that seep out into the basement. I do not cover the baro after the draft is firmly established, even when burning my wood fires. In all the years of burning wood I have never had any creosote in the chimney so I am not worried about chimney fires which to me would be the reason to cover it while burning wood.

 
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lowfog01
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Post by lowfog01 » Tue. Dec. 08, 2009 5:21 am

Like VigIIPeaBurner said you may not needed a barro but it will save you money and effort. I burned coal for 2 seasons before finding this forum so I didn't know about much of anything related to coal much less barros. I put one on last year with 3 months left in the heating season and ended up saving 1/4 ton of coal over previous year's totals. That was 1/4 ton I didn't have buy this year and my fire was easier to maintain and I was getting more heat for less effort - go figure. Lisa

 
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captcaper
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Post by captcaper » Tue. Dec. 08, 2009 6:54 am

mozz wrote:Using a manual damper on a coal stove is A NO-NO. Well, this manufacturer says so anyway. Harman "Under no circumstances should a manual flue damper be installed in the smoke pipe between the stove and the chimney." Maybe your stove is different. This has been argued out here before, I would think better safe than sorry, but some people like to learn the hard way. That quote is right from the Harman Installation and Operating Manual Magnafire Series Coal Stoves - Mark I, II, and III SAFETY NOTICE.
The manual also says' don't burn wood in it. Go figure. I believe it's for liability reasons for CO or smoke backing up. Lot's of people can't handle these stoves. It's a lost art. Years ago they all knew how to handle a coal stove with a MPD they had no choice.
I run a MPD for 2 seasons now and have never had any problems with anything expect exceptional burning times and comfort. Ran one on a Chubby which is OEM for 14 years with a lousy chimney. No problems there either. Got two Co detectors and smoke detectors all thru the house. I have a Baro too but is set for windy days mostly.

 
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Body Hammer
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Post by Body Hammer » Tue. Dec. 08, 2009 7:18 am

The reason for not burning wood in a coal stove is because of EPA guidelines. All new woodstoves sold in the U.S. have either a catalytic converter, or an after-burn baffle. My TLC-2000 has a seperate operating instruction for Canada that explains how to burn wood only in it. But Canada only. In th U.S. it can only burn wood to start a coal fire, or as an open fire-place with a screen. I've only burned coal in it. So I don't know how well it burns wood. And have no plans on finding out. I've handled all the wood I want for one life-time. Every time I tend the the stove now, I think of Jackie Gleason,"How sweet it is!"
Charlie

 
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cybdav
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Post by cybdav » Tue. Dec. 08, 2009 12:22 pm

I have read elsewhere in this forum, written by one of the moderators that installing a baro and burning any wood at all is a serious fire hazard. I will have a lot of weeks where the temps fluctuate between 30's and upper 60's or even lower 70's. Burning wood at these times might work out better for me. I also believe a damper will help a lot. This won't be an easy decision.


 
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coalvet
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Post by coalvet » Tue. Dec. 08, 2009 12:39 pm

cybdav,

I also burn a fair amount of wood in my Crane before switching over to coal, as a result I did not install a baro. I get plenty of heat using either wood or coal and don't feel a baro is necessary in my setup. I know many installs benefit from having a baro but mine isn't one of them. Just my 2 cents worth!!!

Rich

 
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Post by titleist1 » Tue. Dec. 08, 2009 2:29 pm

cybdav wrote:I have read elsewhere in this forum, written by one of the moderators that installing a baro and burning any wood at all is a serious fire hazard.
In my opinion the "installing a baro and burning any wood at all is a serious fire hazard" is overstating the scenario (if it was accurately quoted). In case it wasn't covered in the other discussion, I believe the complete answer is that creosote build up in the chimney from burning wood creates the situation where a chimney fire is possible. If you have a baro then the chimney fire continues to have a source of oxygen even if you close up all air sources on your stove.

You could get a baro that installs in the end of a T and swap it out during the wood burning times of the year by putting a cap on the T. Just to be clear, I do not swap mine out since I do not have the creosote issue. I have mine on a T and it also makes it easy to vacuum out the fly ash in the horizontal section of flue pipe that heads into the thimble.

 
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Post by mozz » Tue. Dec. 08, 2009 5:21 pm

You are missing a point of home owners insurance. I don't care if you never had creosote or whatever,if your house burns down and the insurance company sees you didn't follow the manufacturers instruction, good luck getting them to payout. It's like people plugging a generator into a dryer outlet to power the house, the insurance won't cover it if your house burns down. Do it properly or don't do it at all. What happens if you get sick or hospital bound and someone decides to burn wood only and problems happen? You gonna write down instructions and say follow mine, not the manufacturer instructions?

 
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cybdav
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Post by cybdav » Tue. Dec. 08, 2009 9:24 pm

Wow. Good points. My main problem now is that after 8 hours I still have a fairly good fire but this old house has cooled down quite a bit. I throw a bucket on and shake it down and everything is good. I was just hoping a baro damper might help the cool house in the morning and coming home from work. Running this Mark III at the one and a half turns needed to keep it warm all day is burning up the coal faster than I can get home. I will continue to experiment and appreciate the comments on this.

It was an accurate quote. It is actually in a PM to me.

 
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cybdav
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Post by cybdav » Tue. Dec. 08, 2009 9:28 pm

ok, this is the actual quote;

No, you don't want a baro at all for wood, some people will put aluminum foil over the opening, but you don't want it open or installed at all, if the flames go up the chimney (from wood), it could ignite creosote if there was any and the baro would fuel the chimney and no way to stop it...!!
So I guess I would leave it as is....

 
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lowfog01
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Post by lowfog01 » Wed. Dec. 09, 2009 5:11 am

cybdav wrote: Running this Mark III at the one and a half turns needed to keep it warm all day is burning up the coal faster than I can get home. I will continue to experiment and appreciate the comments on this.
Something’s not right if you have to burn your stove at 1 1/4 turn to maintain the heat during the day but you already knew that. The barro will help but you should be able to set the stove at 3/4 or even 1/2 and keep it warm during the day. Tell us what's your fire like? Do you have blue ladies (flames) dance constantly or does your fire look dead with no signs of flames? I ask because a coal fire doesn't need to be dancing all the time or even any of the time; it may look dead but the coal bed is putting out some kind of heat, burning from the bottom. If you're turn the stove up in order to get the flames, that's where the coal is going. Do you have a stove front thermometer? That will tell you if you stove is burning or not. I run my Mark II during the day at almost an almost idle of 175* and that puts out enough heat to keep my house at 70*. There is no sign of flame at all. Learning your stove's nuances will take time but it will come. Learning to use the thermometers will help. Lisa

 
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Post by whistlenut » Wed. Dec. 09, 2009 5:44 am

You can lead them to water, but you can't make them drive!!
Actually, that cool-aid Rev. Jim Jones had was sort of a 'Creosote Bad Day' kinda thing.
I am really shocked that your stove is so hard to get tuned in. Harmon's are pretty bulletproof, (but that is only the from owner's requesting assistance....from the company I guess)........ Dane, please help out, wherever you are.....

A baro is essential for coal fuel efficiency, and as a minor means of controlling combustion rates and stack temps, but the dilemma is once again caused by the Mark 11 trying to be all things to all people.
No matter what anyone tells you, don't mix fuels; make a decision and stick to it. One or the other....or .....

Having said that I have been to 3 newer homes that have had chimney fires in new, lined chimneys; cracked block, brick and obviously the flues. 10 to 15K to tear it down and rebuild, 3K for a liner that will last .....certainly not 10 years. (ALL wood burners, no coal, no pellets....wood is free folks.....geeeee, how free is 'free'?
Your nickel, your life...and your families also.
It's OK to go out to "The Hook and Ladder" for dinner, so please don't make an invitation for them to stop by your house on a business call.
PS: Up here, Fire Depts are called by their more technical name : "The Much-I-Do Hose Company"......and you thought 'Tigerboy' thought of that all by himself?!? :shock: :D :idea: :oops: From the trail of beauties, he may become 'Fireman of the Year!. :D :D :roll: :?

 
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cybdav
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Post by cybdav » Wed. Dec. 09, 2009 10:58 pm

Lisa,
The something that's not right is trying to use the Mark III as the single source of heat in a 2000 sq. ft. 110 year old drafty house with 12 foot ceilings. The stove is working great at 1/2 turn and I have no issues at that level. What I am trying to do, right or wrong, is get the heat to all the other rooms through these doorways with the door fans I have. Even at one turn this works very well until it gets into the 20's and teens. I have spent a lot of time insulating and it is helping but I still have a ways to go. But when it gets into the low twenties and teens such as tonight the six rooms having doorways to the central room where the stove is are struggling to stay warm. As it is now these rooms stay warm at one and a half turns at the lower outside temps but the coal burns fast and it is hard to maintain that for 8 to 12 hours and may be an unreasonable expectation on my part. I realize I need to know the temps it is putting out better but at one turn it is quite hot. The stove is working good. Just looking for advice.

Whistlenut,

I get your opinion about just sticking with the coal. The rest of the wise cracking didn't really advance the conversation much.

I do have a brand new installation with brand new pipe and chimney all stainless steel interior installed by a certified installer.


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