Drug policies -- good for the country, or just repression?

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Drug policies -- good for the country, or just repression?

PostBy: rberq On: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:13 pm

Some states have legalized medical marijuana. Some are even considering legalizing pot for anybody. How about other drugs? Why does our country outlaw cocaine, heroin, meth, pot, uppers, downers, and who-knows-how-many other drugs? Is it to protect the kids? Protect us adults from ourselves? Is it just repression by those who like to control others? As we learned from Prohibition, there’s a good argument that outlawing drugs spawns organized crime that is far worse for society than the drugs themselves. And by making the drugs so expensive, it spawns tremendous crime by addicts trying to get cash for their next hit. Would it be better if they had easy access to cheap drugs so they wouldn’t have to break into your house and steal stuff to get money? Have the laws produced a whole career track for DEA employees, and prison employees, so that now there are organized groups that support drug laws simply because they earn their livings by enforcing those laws? Why don’t we just warn people that drugs can be dangerous, like bungee jumping can be dangerous, and let them go ahead and kill themselves if they want to?

Anybody got answers? And please don’t say "it's all the liberals' fault". I think you can tell by my questions which way I lean, and nobody has accused me lately of being a right-winger.
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Re: Drug policies -- good for the country, or just repression?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:03 pm

When you consider heroin or meth you're into a completely different category than pot. It's certainly a dilemma where you have a damned if you do and damned if you don't scenario. The war on drugs has been going on for decades and frankly they are losing miserably. The amount of money that can be made from illicit drugs whether you're just a street dealer or the big enchilada is enormous and because of that fact alone they will never be able to eliminate them.

I don't know what the solution is but what we're doing now is not working, I think ultimately the legalization of them is really the only choice. The money being used to police these activities, prosecute and house the people caught up in this can be used to try and help them. It would certainly drastically cut the crime rate.
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Re: Drug policies -- good for the country, or just repression?

PostBy: SMITTY On: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:01 pm

Yeah I agree on the H & meth ..... if those were legalized, things could get ugly. H gets to be PHYSICALLY addictive& meth cranks you up for 12hrs straight & is probably the most addicting drug on the planet. I hear the pure stuff that comes in from Mexico, now that stores banned or restricted sales of ephedrine containing cough syrup, is so powerful it's like doing an 8-ball of coke yourself while on many hits of acid -- your jacked out of your mind, plus your hallucinating -- NOT a good combo.

I just watched a show on the National Geographic Channel about meth, & how these two 20 yr old kids, boyfriend/girlfriend, snorted up a pile of that mexican meth, then got lost driving in a snowstorm & called 911 making no sense whatsoever. They actually got pulled over before that (which they showed) & seemed confused to the cop, but he thought nothing of it & let them go. They told the operator they were near their apartment (I think it was in MO), but were actually 25 miles southwest in very rural farm country. They kept calling back & saying they were surrounded by mexicans & african-americans .... so they got out of their warm truck & fled on foot in a raging blizzard. They found both their bodies about a mile & 1/2 from the truck. They lost all sense of judgement, & that stuff takes FOREVER to wear off. Pretty sad.

Plus the stuff absolutely ruins your body. If you saw what goes into making it (brake fluid, bleach, etc) you'd see why. Check out <>

I think it's best that those 2 drugs, at least, be restricted from use. I personally see no reason why pot should be illegal. "Common"wealth of MA should be thinking of all the tax revenue they could generate! :idea: :lol:
Last edited by Richard S. on Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed dead link
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Re: Drug policies -- good for the country, or just repression?

PostBy: Pete69 On: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:34 am

[quote= I personally see no reason why pot should be illegal. "Common"wealth of MA should be thinking of all the tax revenue they could generate! :idea: :lol:]
Because if pot was legal it could put company's like DuPont out of business. You can make a variety of superior products with the hemp plant. Especially the seed. What kind if paper was the deceleration of independence written on?
Now that they have the ability to buy up all the seeds, patent them, and file them away in the seed bank, maybe it will be legalized soon.
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Re: Drug policies -- good for the country, or just repression?

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:25 pm

SMITTY wrote:Yeah I agree on the H & meth ..... if those were legalized, things could get ugly. H gets to be PHYSICALLY addictive& meth cranks you up for 12hrs straight & is probably the most addicting drug on the planet. I hear the pure stuff that comes in from Mexico, now that stores banned or restricted sales of ephedrine containing cough syrup, is so powerful it's like doing an 8-ball of coke yourself while on many hits of acid -- your jacked out of your mind, plus your hallucinating -- NOT a good combo.



My understanding is the opiates (heroin, morphine and such) are very addictive but not that damaging to the body. People with those addictions (if they can afford them) are generally mellow and not problematic to society unless they are cut off and forced into crime to pay for their addiction.

Meth destroys your body really quickly and makes you paranoid/crazy.

I would not lump the two together.
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Re: Drug policies -- good for the country, or just repression?

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:42 pm

Before heroin, cocaine and pot were illegal and could be purchased at the pharmacy at reasonable cost, there was no drug problem in this country. Kind of ironic, don't you think?
CT legalized medicinal pot about 20 years ago, the problem is no Dr. will write a perscription for it as there is no legal source available to procure it.
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Re: Drug policies -- good for the country, or just repression?

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:52 pm

Heroin was invented by Bayer.

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Re: Drug policies -- good for the country, or just repression?

PostBy: rberq On: Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:44 pm

SMITTY wrote:... two 20 yr old kids, boyfriend/girlfriend, snorted up a pile of that mexican meth, then got lost driving in a snowstorm & called 911 ... kept calling back & saying they were surrounded by mexicans & african-americans .... so they got out of their warm truck & fled on foot in a raging blizzard. They found both their bodies about a mile & 1/2 from the truck ... Pretty sad .... Plus the stuff absolutely ruins your body. I think it's best that those 2 drugs, at least, be restricted from use.

Sad? Sure. But people don't need meth to kill themselves -- morons die every year by chugging too much whiskey in too short a time. I really don't give a sh*t if stupid people kill themselves with drugs, any more than if they kill themselves with whiskey or by playing Russian Roulette with a Colt .45. What I DON'T want is that they come and kill me, or steal from me, to get money for drugs whose prices have been driven artificially high by restrictions. Making the drugs illegal causes much more damage to our country, indirectly, than if you just let a few people kill themselves. Restricting drug use does not work, otherwise those 20-year-olds would not have had meth to snort in the first place.
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Re: Drug policies -- good for the country, or just repression?

PostBy: djackman On: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:01 pm

SMITTY wrote:I just watched a show on the National Geographic Channel about meth, & how these two 20 yr old kids, boyfriend/girlfriend, snorted up a pile of that mexican meth, then got lost driving in a snowstorm


Unless there's a part where they were forced against their will to snort meth, file this under "Darwin At Work". Good riddance and hopefully they didn't reproduce.



I'm not a recreational (or otherwise) drug user but I've always been for legalization. It's not my "thing" but if others want to that's fine until it starts effecting me. Being treated as a criminal to buy allergy meds at the drug store IS an effect of their usage.

If the goal is really to "eliminate" drug use stop confiscating and/or destroying drug labs/sources. Instead contaminate the end products with a lethal dose of cyanide or other poison. Won't take long for the entire supply/demand quickly go away.

And would save us a lot of money rehab/incarceration
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Re: Drug policies -- good for the country, or just repression?

PostBy: rberq On: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:01 pm

djackman wrote:If the goal is really to "eliminate" drug use stop confiscating and/or destroying drug labs/sources. Instead contaminate the end products with a lethal dose of cyanide or other poison. Won't take long for the entire supply/demand quickly go away.

Great idea! I would not go so far as to contaminate them with poisons, but maybe something that make users puke and feel miserable for a day or two. The government could flood the market with doctored drugs, and it does seem like that would cut drug use down down down in a fairly humane way.
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Re: Drug policies -- good for the country, or just repression?

PostBy: acesover On: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:23 pm

They already do EVA in cigaretts.
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Re: Drug policies -- good for the country, or just repression?

PostBy: SMITTY On: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:56 pm

ErikLaurence wrote:My understanding is the opiates (heroin, morphine and such) are very addictive but not that damaging to the body. People with those addictions (if they can afford them) are generally mellow and not problematic to society unless they are cut off and forced into crime to pay for their addiction. ...... I would not lump the two together.

That's just it -- they are constantly cut off because they are forever chasing that first high they got when they first tried it. They will never be satisfied, & pursue the drug at all cost. Heroin & crack alone probably account for 90% of all robberies & violent crimes in America -- just a guess... let alone meth. I've seen what ALL these drugs do to people. H might not be bad for you, but when you shoot it with dirty needles & don't eat for 4 days, it takes a serious toll on your appearance. Just the fact that your body eventually DEPENDS on H after a while ranks it right up there with meth -- people are going to get either one if it means shooting & robbing YOU to get it.


rberq wrote:Sad? Sure......

djackman wrote:Unless there's a part where they were forced against their will to snort meth, file this under "Darwin At Work". Good riddance and hopefully they didn't reproduce.

The reason I said "sad" is because these weren't your stereotypical meth-heads. These were two young, normal, midwestern middle-class kids who were known by all to NOT use drugs. They didn't rob, lie, cheat & steal to get their meth fix. The interviews backed that up. They were at a party & someone laid it out on a table, & they made a fatal decision to give it a try. They probably had no idea how little of that substance would have a HUGE effect on the mind, & blasted waaaay too much.

If anything, the same fate should be dealt to the person who supplied them with the meth.
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Re: Drug policies -- good for the country, or just repression?

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:23 pm

SMITTY wrote:The reason I said "sad" is because these weren't your stereotypical meth-heads. These were two young, normal, midwestern middle-class kids who were known by all to NOT use drugs. They didn't rob, lie, cheat & steal to get their meth fix. The interviews backed that up. They were at a party & someone laid it out on a table, & they made a fatal decision to give it a try. They probably had no idea how little of that substance would have a HUGE effect on the mind, & blasted waaaay too much.


This is EXACTLY what kept me away from drugs. I certainly had plenty of chances to do them.

But I just KNEW the first time I took some, my heart would explode.

It's unfortunate, but you have to be aware that if you make a bad decision, you might die.

My answer to the question is make everything legal. We already have laws against operating a vehicle while impaired. That should cover everything from street drugs to prescription drugs.

I think part of the "thrill" of drugs is people thinking they are "getting away" with something. Let's face it, heroin doesn't make you feel good. It makes you puke and pass out.

But some people just have a need to rebel against everything. My step sister is/was one. Her life is a mess but she still HAS to go against the grain.
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Re: Drug policies -- good for the country, or just repression?

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:49 pm

jpete wrote:Let's face it, heroin doesn't make you feel good. It makes you puke and pass out.

But some people just have a need to rebel against everything. My step sister is/was one. Her life is a mess but she still HAS to go against the grain.


I don't know about heroin.

But 15 years ago I had some sinus surgery (FYI not fun, very painful) and they had me on morphine for about the first 36 hours post op. I totally understand how that is addictive. Pharmacologicaly morphine and heroin are very similar. Morphine not only does an incredible job killing pain but it makes you not care about the pain you do have.
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Re: Drug policies -- good for the country, or just repression?

PostBy: SMITTY On: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:56 pm

They shot me up with morphine after a motorcycle crash out in CA. I kept asking for more, because for some reason it didn't do what it was supposed to do -- just made me sleepy & in pain.

Everyone reacts differently to different drugs -- that could weigh heavily on legalization of anything.
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