Infrared Heaters

Infrared Heaters

PostBy: traderfjp On: Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:33 pm

They are claiming that these heaters can do a 1500sq ft. home and it only cost a 1.00 a day. I'm sure it's 2.00 a day for electricity where I'm at. I was thinking of getting one for my basement. Does anyone have any experience with these units?


http://cgi.ebay.com/iHeater-New-1500-Series-Quartz-Infrared-Portable-Heater_W0QQitemZ120492846236QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0deeec9c
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: Infrared Heaters

PostBy: franco b On: Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:24 pm

Save your money. The idea behind infra red heaters is that you can feel the heat of radiation, just like your coal stove, and perhaps be warm enough even though the actual room heat may not be at a comfortable level. This allows you to turn down the thermostat. Of course you would have to move the heater to whatever room you were in. As far as actual heat value they are no different than any other electric heater which can be bought for far less. To put heat into a basement would be a waste.

Cost to run would depend on your electric rate. At 1500 watts x 24hours this equals 36 kilowatt hours per day. If your rate is .20 per kilowatt hour then this would be $7.20 per day times 30 for the month, or $216.00.

Electric heaters are great to supply temporary supplemental heat in something like a bathroom where it is only on for a short time. Otherwise too expensive.

Richard
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Infrared Heaters

PostBy: sterling40man On: Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:45 pm

I haven't used them, but agree with Richard. Some of our friends have two of these http://www.edenpurestore.com/. I suppose it's the same. They say that they work well. Their electric bill has gone up $100+ per month. Their oil consumption has almost been cut in half (so they claim). They have forced hot air and an oil fired DWH heater. On another note, my father-in-law bought one and he hated it. He used it for one month and is now trying to sell it. He said that he didn't see any savings.
sterling40man
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker K6
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA-6


Re: Infrared Heaters

PostBy: Freddy On: Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:02 pm

Well....they do function other than Richards math on the cost to use is correct and also for about $50 you can go to your local hardware store and get one that is mechanically and electrically the same.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: Infrared Heaters

PostBy: traderfjp On: Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:30 pm

Thanks....It looked to good to be true. I heat my basement for my Mom in law and wanted to turn the aquastat all the way down on my boiler to use as little oil as possible. Right now I have a 28'ft coil in my stove and it helps the boiler to maintaint temp. I also have an oil fired HWH but with the price per kilowatt on LI it still pays to use oil and not switch to electric. I also like the recovery of oil.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: Infrared Heaters

PostBy: franco b On: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:54 pm

traderfjp wrote:Thanks....It looked to good to be true. I heat my basement for my Mom in law and wanted to turn the aquastat all the way down on my boiler to use as little oil as possible. Right now I have a 28'ft coil in my stove and it helps the boiler to maintaint temp. I also have an oil fired HWH but with the price per kilowatt on LI it still pays to use oil and not switch to electric. I also like the recovery of oil.


The best way would be to run a separate zone in the basement. Material should not be much more than the cost of that heater.

I noticed that on some of the new boilers there is 3 inches of insulation. It might pay to add insulation to your existing boiler to slow down stand by heat loss.

Richard
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Infrared Heaters

PostBy: traderfjp On: Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:28 pm

Last year I insulated the boiler and it definetely helped. I also upgraded the head on my boiler to a Reillo. And the basement is also on a seperate zone.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: Infrared Heaters

PostBy: franco b On: Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:31 pm

traderfjp wrote:Last year I insulated the boiler and it definetely helped. I also upgraded the head on my boiler to a Reillo. And the basement is also on a seperate zone.


Sounds like you covered all the bases.

A few other thoughts. You mentioned lowering the aquastat. Remember that the reverse aquastat which prevents the circulator from running if the water temperature is not up to its setting will have to be lowered too unless it is built into the differential of your low limit. The circulator will run longer to satisfy the heat in that zone but it will be more comfortable owing to the steadier heat, even though not as hot. This is assuming the radiation can heat the area with the lower temperature water.

The burner you replaced. I have not had any experience with that make, but am curious if any measurements have been taken of its performance. Smoke number, CO2, and stack temp. Frequently the best performance requires a well designed combustion chamber as well, preferably of insulating firebrick.

Richard
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Infrared Heaters

PostBy: traderfjp On: Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:07 pm

It's pretty warm out so I keep my aquastat at 120 - 130 and my stove is also heating the boiler water and it does a good job. When it get colder I usually raise the aquastat to 130-140. I would like to get off oil. My only alternative would be a pellet stove in the basement. I wouldn't want to hump coal down there and carry up ash. It's also only about 750 sq. ft.
Last edited by traderfjp on Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: Infrared Heaters

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:58 am

traderfjp wrote:Last year I insulated the boiler and it definetely helped. I also upgraded the head on my boiler to a Reillo. And the basement is also on a seperate zone.


I spent all day yesterday installing a new Riello burner on my vintage 6-section Weil Mclain boiler, so far I am very impressed. The air shutter definitely keeps the chimney from sucking air through the boiler, I've noticed that the boiler kicks on less often to maintain temperature and the stovepipe is cool to the touch after the boiler has been idle a while. With the old burner the stovepipe was always warm from the stack losses.

-Rob
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Infrared Heaters

PostBy: Yanche On: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:07 am

What size nozzle and cone angle did you use? How did you decide what to use? I've never understood how to choose. Did you do anything to the combustion chamber material?
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Infrared Heaters

PostBy: franco b On: Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:07 pm

Yanche wrote:What size nozzle and cone angle did you use? How did you decide what to use? I've never understood how to choose. Did you do anything to the combustion chamber material?


Though not addressed to me I think I can give you the answers you want.

The size of the nozzle determines the firing rate in gallons per hour, and is selected to match the rated output of the boiler or furnace. My inclination is always to use slightly smaller than recommended to obtain longer run times which are more efficient than shorter times since there is less loss getting up to heat. The ideal of course would be to run steadily which would obviate any standby and start up heat loss. Not practical though except in commercial applications.

The correct angle and whether hollow or solid spray is determined by the air pattern of the burner which in modern burners is specified by the maker. For my boiler it would be for a Beckett, 1 gallon per hour and 80 degree A which means a hollow spray. For Carlin burner it would be 1gallon 60B which is a solid spray pattern, and for Riello it would be .90 60 degree B. The .90 figure for the Riello burner may be because it uses a higher pump pressure than the standard which is 100 pounds.

Looking at the above there is an 80 degree air pattern and two 60 degree patterns. The 80 degree would be ideal for a round combustion chamber and the 60 degree for somewhat longer than wide chamber, so the selection of the burner should also be determined by the shape of the boiler and possible shape of the chamber. If I had a long narrow boiler then none of these burners would be ideal.

The air pattern of these burners is strong and precise and by matching the pattern of the oil spray to more exactly match the air pattern less excess air is needed for clean combustion resulting in higher efficiency. The burners are so good that manufacturers often use a minimal combustion chamber, sometimes just a target wall of refractory. A good chamber though will always be better.

The Shell oil company pioneered the first flame retention head about 60 years ago. These new burners are all patterned after it. The Babcock and Wilcox company made a firebrick of Kaolin clay and mixed sawdust with the clay before firing. After firing the brick had a mass of air pockets where the sawdust had been. You can hold one of these insulating firebricks in your hand and play a blowtorch on one side which will be incandescent and not burn yourself. Using a Shell head burner and chamber of this brick the highest burner efficiencies ever achieved has resulted.

Hope this helps,

Richard
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Infrared Heaters

PostBy: traderfjp On: Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:47 pm

The first head on my boiler was a shell. I guess it was pretty old. I inherited it with the house. It always ran sooty even after it was tuned. I was glad to get rid of it.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: Infrared Heaters

PostBy: franco b On: Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:55 pm

traderfjp wrote:The first head on my boiler was a shell. I guess it was pretty old. I inherited it with the house. It always ran sooty even after it was tuned. I was glad to get rid of it.


Obviously something was very wrong. End cone burnt out, wrong nozzle, bad adjustment.

Richard
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Infrared Heaters

PostBy: Berlin On: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 am

some of the old lazy burning (low speed) burners would burn fine w/ some smoke (1). the best thing you can do for you boiler wet-base or not is install a thick "quick glow" type ceramic combustion chamber by lynn, IPC etc. I'm partial to Carlin 99frd burners with a turned up pump around 120 psi, lower flow nozzle (use double fuel line filters for nozzles under 1gph) and 80º hollow or hybrid cone nozzles for most conditions; but not without a full combustion chamber. you'll be able to decrease excess air (lower air band setting) and have better efficiency with a good thick combustion chamber. if you're looking for combustion chambers cheaper than your local parts house, there's a guy on ebay selling them for a good 10-$30 less.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal