Making a external DHW Coil

Re: Making a external DHW Coil

PostBy: Sting On: Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:05 pm

yep

Just like Indiana Jones --- I was named after the dog! :lol:

so your in the basement with this -- OK water damage is less likely

but -- and again there is "that" word --- Most folks have their humidifier in the living space. If close to the kitchen or handy -- I can just see some poor boob taking this advice / contraption to heart --- and then causing jillions of dollars of damage to the dwelling.
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: Making a external DHW Coil

PostBy: bug512 On: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:15 pm

The humidifier makes little difference if it is in the basement of living area, personally I do not like the sight of it nor the noise from the fans .. so in the basement it is.
Yep, there are a lot of "what if" in life. Think about the plumbing in your bathroom and kitchen, or how about the hoses that go to the washing machine. All of that could fail and do lots of damage.

Risk vs. Reward
bug512
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Stoker 90K

Re: Making a external DHW Coil

PostBy: bug512 On: Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:22 pm

Pictures of heat shield below. I made the shield from the pieces left over form the baseboard heat that I purchased for the coil.
Image
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Water temperatures after almost one week of the system running.
Image
bug512
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Stoker 90K


Re: Making a external DHW Coil

PostBy: 4tees On: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:22 am

Great job! When will you begin marketing "Gene's external dhw coil"?

Did you put together a parts list and source?
Why the expansion tank on the cold water inlet?
What made you decide to go with the pump vs thermosyphon?
Is your pump set up to run continously? How is that wired?
Have you been tracking input/output temps throughout the day? ie before/after morning showers, etc. How low do temps go after morning hot water usage?

I have been thinking about the hykoil since I got my Hyfire last year but really don't want to cut those holes in the side of the stove. I have a huge boiler for my steam heating system that heats our hot water. Have not run boiler for heating yet this year. Hope to be able to bypass the boiler completely and save that fuel oil.

Thanks,,,,
4tees
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire II with hot air jacket

Re: Making a external DHW Coil

PostBy: bug512 On: Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:03 am

4tees wrote:Great job! When will you begin marketing "Gene's external dhw coil"?

Did you put together a parts list and source?
Lowes/Home Depot/Grainger
7 - 3/4" Copper Sweat T's
2 - 3/4" Brass Sweat Unions
3 - 3/4" Copper Sweat 90's
1 - 3/4" Copper Sweat 45
3 - 3/4" Copper Sweat to NPT Female adapter
4 - 3/4" Copper Sweat to NPT Male adapter
1 - 3/4" male to 1/4" female reducing bushing
1 - 1/4" automatic air vent
1 - 006 series Taco Bronze pump (Grainger)
1 - 9' cord (for pump)
1 - 3/4" Gate valve Bronze
2 - 10' X 3/4" L copper pipe
2 - 3/4" Brass T's NPT
2 - 3/4" Brass drain valves
1 - 3/4" X 3" brass nipple
2 - 3/4" close nipple
2 - Panel Mount Thermometers - Grainger 5XL18
3 - lengths 3/4" pipe insulation
3 - 3' lengths of fin tube.

This is what is needed for the coil to tempering tank installation, not getting your cold water supply to the tank and the tempered water to your already existing water heating source.

Why the expansion tank on the cold water inlet?
I knew there would be expansion due to the fact when you expel the hot water supply and replace it with cold water would expand over time, I knew the tank is needed. The expansion tank is always located on the cold water inlet on a domestic water heating application.

What made you decide to go with the pump vs thermosyphon?
The reason for the pump is that the location from the coil to tempering tank is around 10' in pipe length, I am not a fan on piping being "pitched", and this will also serve when I use this same system for a solar panel that I am going to use during the summer months.

Is your pump set up to run continously? How is that wired?
Continuous for now. Wired with a 14 gage cord to a outlet.

Have you been tracking input/output temps throughout the day? ie before/after morning showers, etc. How low do temps go after morning hot water usage?
I have, it depends on how hard the stove is running. It is 13 outside so the stove is really going and so my temperatures this morning were in the 120's range, after two showers we were in the low 90's
It was milder out the other day and I observed temperatures in the high 80's


I have been thinking about the hykoil since I got my Hyfire last year but really don't want to cut those holes in the side of the stove. I have a huge boiler for my steam heating system that heats our hot water. Have not run boiler for heating yet this year. Hope to be able to bypass the boiler completely and save that fuel oil.

Thanks,,,,
bug512
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Stoker 90K

Re: Making a external DHW Coil

PostBy: WNY On: Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:06 am

Nice!

Here's a good article on Hot water expansion on hot water tanks.


Most people may not have back flow/pressure regulators from the city water (Or wells) and the expansion usually will go back in the cold line (hence that is usually where the expansion tanks are located, since your hot is blocked by your faucets.
Last edited by Richard S. on Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: <removed dead link>
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Making a external DHW Coil

PostBy: paulinpoland On: Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:13 pm

I wandered over to this topic, and I started thinking about catching heat for household water. Referring to my simplified diagram, could this be an option? A water tank seam welded around the flue pipe? Has anyone done this? Or is it a stupid idea?

If not, would everything have to be made of stainless steel? Maybe the flue pipe would need to be shrouded by a second pipe, to avoid direct contact with the water?

It's cold outside,here......I'm middle-aged....my mind starts to wander....I'll go to bed when it gets back :) .
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paulinpoland
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Welded metal box

Re: Making a external DHW Coil

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:15 am

mee thinks the stack temp is to low for adequate heat transfer sideways into the water ....

maybe if there were turbulator tubes sideways???

but then ash traps.....
Poconoeagle
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Buckwalter & Co. , EFM520
Stove/Furnace Model: No. 28 Glenwood 1880, Alaska

Re: Making a external DHW Coil

PostBy: WNY On: Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:44 am

Your pipe may not be hot enough, if burning wood, maybe, but coal the stack temps are usually much lower.
You could also just wrap some flexible copper tubing around the pipe without having to build a big jacket.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Making a external DHW Coil

PostBy: bug512 On: Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:03 am

Question ? If you lower stack temperature (by taking heat away), do you loose some draft?

And to the original poster, how hot is the stack temperatures?

I like the idea of wrapping the stove pipe with soft copper. I think I would go with 3/8", then insulate around the pipe.
There is also a heat conductive cement that you could use around the copper to pipe to increase heat transfer. This is used in industrial applications for steam tracing process lines.

Along with that throttling valve, T&P valve and temperature gauges to look at the performance.
bug512
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Stoker 90K

Re: Making a external DHW Coil

PostBy: Adamiscold On: Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:31 am

My outside stack temperature is less then 200* so I really don't see how much heat can be taken from it to warm water and it would cool down your stack pipe which in turn will effect your draft. I just don't see how spending the time or money would be worth it when compared to what you will get out of it. It would seem to be worth more to do a setup on the outside of your stove like Gene did if you have no plans on cutting into your stove then it would to just throw money away on trying to steal heat from your stack pipe.
Adamiscold
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Chubby Sr. Old School

Re: Making a external DHW Coil

PostBy: bug512 On: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:47 pm

bug512
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Stoker 90K

Re: Making a external DHW Coil

PostBy: paulinpoland On: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:53 pm

Noted...

.......the thing is, I have no experience at all of modern heating systems. In my experience, flue pipes get exceedingly hot. Obviously, with baros and all the rest, more heat is contained and less escapes via the flue.

Learning all the time...thanks! I'm 53, but I still enjoy naivety :) .
paulinpoland
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Welded metal box

Re: Making a external DHW Coil

PostBy: bug512 On: Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:22 am

Just a update.. going on the third heating season with this domestic coil setup and all has been going very well. The original (free) storage tank started to leak and was replaced with a newer (craigslist special) 80 gallon tank.

If you are feeling handy and want to heat up some water then try this project.

Good luck and if you have any questions please ask.
bug512
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Stoker 90K

Re: Making a external DHW Coil

PostBy: EarthWindandFire On: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:08 am

I have a 30 gallon water heater fired by natural gas. Last week I called Yankee Gas and had them mail me a statement for the past 18 months of my bills and usage. So, in a given year I spend about 400 dollars on natural gas. Now, for me anyway, coal is not the least expensive method for heating DHW, certainly not during the warm months.

So what do I do? Call Yankee Gas and have them turn off my gas from April to October? I'm sure there's a service disconnection and connection fee.

The real reason that I plan on using the stove to heat my dhw is for the dehumidifying effect on my basement which is very very damp and wet during the summer.

For those that have a stove with a Coal-trol, do I make chenges in the MIN and MAX so that the stove runs at a constant firing rate and maintain enough draft during hot weather? Say approximately a MIN of 8 and a MAX of 12 ans set the day and night temps at 90 degrees?
EarthWindandFire
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Lil' Heater.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer model 75.
Other Heating: Oil and Natural Gas.