ACORN Files Suit: Defunding "Unconstitutional"

ACORN Files Suit: Defunding "Unconstitutional"

PostBy: Richard S. On: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:21 pm

I'm surprised at this. They must be getting desperate, this would open them to inquiry in a court of law? :)

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11 ... -congress/

In an attempt to regain the millions in funding it lost in the wake of a hidden-camera scandal, ACORN is suing the federal government over congressional legislation that cut off funding to the community organizing group.

Representatives for ACORN sued the federal government Thursday morning in an attempt to regain the millions of dollars in funding the community organizing group lost after filmmakers videotaped its workers offering advice on how to commit tax fraud and various other felonies.

The suit charges Congress with violating the Constitution when it passed legislation in September that specifically targeted ACORN to lose federal housing, education and transportation funds.

That qualifies the legislation as bills of attainder, according to the Center for Constitutional Rights, which filed the suit on behalf of ACORN. A bill of attainder punishes a person or group without the benefit of a trial, and is illegal under Article 1 of the Constitution.
Richard S.
 
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Re: ACORN Files Suit: Defunding "Unconstututional"

PostBy: pvolcko On: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:40 pm

I hope they get laughed out of the courtroom. If the government passed a law banning all state governments from funding ACORN, or banning ACORN from being able collect private donations, or capriciously yanking their tax exempt status, or something of that nature, then they'd have a point. But all the congress did is shut off the federal dollar grant money spigot, which no one person or group is entitled to. To argue otherwise inevitably leads to two conclusions that can not be allowed to stand:

1) Non-government entities funded at least in part by federally appropriated grants are entitled to that money as a protected right under the constitution.
2) The level of funding provided in a budget or awarded as part of a multi-budget year program can not be cut or reduced until the end of the program or budget under which the appropriation has been made.

It may even be possible to argue a step further that a level of funding could never be reduced or cut, regardless or budget years or program sunset declarations, once appropriated the entity as a right to that same level of funding for ever more or until the government falls. But even without taking it to that level, the 2 prior conclusions are idiotic in the extreme, flying in the face of all good sense and reason. No doubt ACORN will win the case. :mad:
pvolcko
 

Re: ACORN Files Suit: Defunding "Unconstitutional"

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:07 pm

ErikLaurence
 
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Re: ACORN Files Suit: Defunding "Unconstitutional"

PostBy: coalmeister On: Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:14 pm

Bet the dems did it on purpose to look like they were doing something but knowing full well it would never stick
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Re: ACORN Files Suit: Defunding "Unconstitutional"

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:14 pm

Now they have guaranteed an investigation, trial or whatever the case may be.
Richard S.
 
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Re: ACORN Files Suit: Defunding "Unconstitutional"

PostBy: tvb On: Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:25 pm

I'm sure ACORN is aware of the rules of evidence and have a feeling that if they didn't think they would prevail, they wouldn't have filed suit. Of course, Jeffrey Breitbart and company are also going to have to hand over some video tapes.
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Re: ACORN Files Suit: Defunding "Unconstitutional"

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:47 pm

tvb wrote:I'm sure ACORN is aware of the rules of evidence and have a feeling that if they didn't think they would prevail, they wouldn't have filed suit. Of course, Jeffrey Breitbart and company are also going to have to hand over some video tapes.



They have refused so far to hand over unedited footage.
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Re: ACORN Files Suit: Defunding "Unconstitutional"

PostBy: tvb On: Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:46 pm

I hate to say this, but if they were smart, the tapes were erased once they released their edits into the wild. That's kind of teevee 101. Always, always, erase the raw tapes once you are happy with the edits (Richard, are you paying attention here?). It's much harder to get sued that way.

When I worked in local teevee news many lifetimes ago, we never held anything more than a week and if it was something that could bring us a subpoena, they were degaussed that day once the story was ready for air. That never stopped the subpoenas though. Once a month I would have to go to the courthouse with a bunch of paper and explain to a judge that the tapes were erased regularly as a matter of newsroom policy. The problem was that the previous person in charge of that stuff would just hand stuff over to the cops. I was of the position that we didn't work for the cops and if they wanted interviews with their subjects of interest, they should go out there and get that information themselves.

Unless they are of Tiger having sex; then you sell them to the nearest tabloid for lots of money.
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Re: ACORN Files Suit: Defunding "Unconstitutional"

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:50 pm

tvb wrote:, erase the raw tapes once you are happy with the edits (Richard, are you paying attention here?). It's much harder to get sued that way.


??? I have multiple copies of all digital material I ever produced in separate physical locations. :P
Richard S.
 
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Re: ACORN Files Suit: Defunding "Unconstitutional"

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:54 pm

tvb wrote:I hate to say this, but if they were smart, the tapes were erased once they released their edits into the wild. That's kind of teevee 101. Always, always, erase the raw tapes once you are happy with the edits (Richard, are you paying attention here?). It's much harder to get sued that way.

When I worked in local teevee news many lifetimes ago, we never held anything more than a week and if it was something that could bring us a subpoena, they were degaussed that day once the story was ready for air. That never stopped the subpoenas though. Once a month I would have to go to the courthouse with a bunch of paper and explain to a judge that the tapes were erased regularly as a matter of newsroom policy. The problem was that the previous person in charge of that stuff would just hand stuff over to the cops. I was of the position that we didn't work for the cops and if they wanted interviews with their subjects of interest, they should go out there and get that information themselves.

Unless they are of Tiger having sex; then you sell them to the nearest tabloid for lots of money.


You qualify as a Climatologist expert!
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Re: ACORN Files Suit: Defunding "Unconstitutional"

PostBy: tvb On: Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:32 pm

Richard S. wrote:
tvb wrote:, erase the raw tapes once you are happy with the edits (Richard, are you paying attention here?). It's much harder to get sued that way.


??? I have multiple copies of all digital material I ever produced in separate physical locations. :P


Dear Mr. Richard,

I have been deeply harmed by you when you filmed me falling down drunk. I'm suing you for a billion dollars.

You have the videotape of me during this incident and by virtue of receiving this letter, you are not to erase them because it will be considered destroying evidence key to a legal proceeding. Further, as part of discovery, you'll need to give me all copies of all those tapes of me falling down drunk so I can use them in my suit against you. If you don't, we'll get a court order to make you hand them over. This includes all tape you hold at all locations.

Regards,

Drunk person


What ya gonna do?

Now, if as a matter of course, you had been erasing those tapes, I wouldn't have a drunken leg to stand on. However, now that you admitted you keep them all, you're hosed.
tvb
 
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Re: ACORN Files Suit: Defunding "Unconstitutional"

PostBy: Richard S. On: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:32 pm

tvb wrote:Now, if as a matter of course, you had been erasing those tapes, I wouldn't have a drunken leg to stand on. However, now that you admitted you keep them all, you're hosed.


Some lawyers are like terrorists and just like I'm not going to hide from terrorists I'm not going to hide from lawyers.

Destroying material as you describe from a TV station is almost a crime itself because those videos are irreplaceable since they would be focusing on events. Nothing to about legal issues here but having historical archives of events.

As for the people who videotaped ACORN I'm going to guess they still have full copies and will release them when required. The "out of context" argument is BS as what has been released is has sequences many minutes long.
Richard S.
 
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Re: ACORN Files Suit: Defunding "Unconstitutional"

PostBy: tvb On: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:55 pm

Richard S. wrote:

Destroying material as you describe from a TV station is almost a crime itself because those videos are irreplaceable since they would be focusing on events. Nothing to about legal issues here but having historical archives of events.

As for the people who videotaped ACORN I'm going to guess they still have full copies and will release them when required. The "out of context" argument is BS as what has been released is has sequences many minutes long.


I bet they don't have them. And by the way, there isn't a station in the world with a seemingly unlimited budget for what was tape and is now disc. The tapes then, and the discs today are reused.

As far as calling it criminal, go take a class on media law and get back to me when you change your mind after learning how and why people sue teevee stations, and how and why the police think the media works for them. YOu think the state of the media sucks now? Try it without sources because no one will talk to you if they know they police or anyone else can willy-nilly serve a subpoena and find out who blabbed.
tvb
 
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Re: ACORN Files Suit: Defunding "Unconstitutional"

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:28 pm

They continue to refuse to release unedited video even at the request of law enforcement.

That said, it appears that the transcripts of the video they released do not match the video they released.

http://www.acorn.org/fileadmin/HomePage ... cperts.pdf
ErikLaurence
 
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Re: ACORN Files Suit: Defunding "Unconstitutional"

PostBy: Richard S. On: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:49 pm

tvb wrote:As far as calling it criminal, go take a class on media law and get back


I meant criminal in the sense it's wrong. Tape is cheap and so are hard drives, what TV station would use disc (DVD I'm assuming)? That be cheap ass station with some pretty poor equipment using unreliable media. ;) I can see them getting rid of junk, I do it myself by editing out the shots of the floor or whatever. 1TB drive could hold 250 hours of high quality MPEG...
Richard S.
 
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