Sting wrote:brckwlt wrote:Poconoeagle wrote:i see!!! sounds like ya gotta go choke a valve or two and speriment till you can circulate consistantly and maintain a narrower temp defferential between the in and out
But im not sure what valves im chocking, the radiator valves?
one question at a time
Do ALL the radiator valves in the house still open and close -- turn easily so you can limit the amount of energy drawn from the house loop?
IF YES -- then close them all and the thermostat will call the circulator to action and the house loop will be charges with energy and constantly circulate -- then when the boiler is at idle fire, the circulator is still pumping and the house begins to cool -- ONE at a time -- CRACK open the radiator valve ( about an 1/8 turn) on each COLD radiator waiting -- and this will be the hard part -- about 15 minutes before going to the next one. When they are all open just a crack each should begin to "feel" warm. Now WAIT and see if that is enough radiation to keep the house comfortable -- Likely it will not so now it becomes a search and destroy mission -- crank the radiator valve in what appears to be the most lived in space another 1/8 turn and WAIT an hour to see if that's enough -- and on and on and on --
You just balanced your system
And I like this one better -- but I want you to wrap you head around the paragraph above before we continue....
if there is a valve on either side of the main house loop circulator -- TURN IT CLOSED and open it just a crack -- now your globally limiting the boiler energy out put to the house loop that feeds each radiation source in the house - and your doing it equally thru the system. WAIT an hour and if the house is still cool and if the circulator is still pumping and IF the boiler is at idle fire -- crack (that valve or valves) open just a slight little bit more and WAIT again and keep that up until the system is pumping all night long and the house is comfortable. You may encounter an area or room that is warmer than another -- twist the RADIATOR valve (in that room or area) closed and do the dance detailed above on it to balance that area -- IF you do this at more than one radiator you MAY need to close the circulator valve -- remember the one we started with in this paragraph??? because why??? the TOTAL system energy use is being reduced by your individual radiator balancing and thus --- you need to reduce the TOTAL energy input as a whole into the house loop. --
once you have accomplished balancing your main loop and balancing you area radiation as described in paragraph two -- as the out door temperature get colder you will have to open the circulator valve just a smidge bit more to introduce more energy to carry the load and you will have to close it when the weather warms. This was the boiler tenders duty 100 years ago when out door reset controls were more expensive than hiring a guy full time for the boiler room.
You can do this and it don't cost NUTTIN. It just takes a lot of time to get it right at first -- then it takes a little time every day to keep it on track and when your comfortable with it you will be able to anticipate what valve you need to set where for the weather coming in tomorrow.
It no different than the knowledge of the old dead steam train engine operator that drove his traction motor by the fell and the sound of it. He learned by driving it - what position a valve or lever had to be in for the grade and the terrain of the tracks he was piloting his equipment. There were no ECM controls -- ti was a human -- and the had of ONE human that moved miles of freight with one locomotive. Your hand can heat your house too.
once you get this -- and if you get sick of it -- lets look at automatic outdoor reset or delta t pumping. But as I began -- OK not 80 posts ago but some time ago -- lets crawl lets walk and lets run in sequence -- or lets read some books to learn what we are doing so we can help ourselves and not depend of some dumb duck on the otter side of the public internet that cannot see in your basement.
Ok, I'm resurrecting this thread because I'm probably in a similar situation atm.
Given the advice you gave here for a monoflow system, would it work equally well with a two pipe system that was originally a gravity feed system when it was installed?
I'm trying to imagine why not, but it would seem that throttling the output off the boiler and balancing the radiators would be just as effective in either case.