Moving Hot Air off stove

Moving Hot Air off stove

PostBy: Matt E On: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:54 pm

First I would thank everyone who shares information on this forum. It has been very helpful to me as a new coal user. This is my first coal stove. I have a few questions. I just installed a Hyfire 2 with the heat jacket and Coal Trol thermostat. I am heating a two story ranch at about 3000 SQ FT. I had a professional install it and I helped. He installed everything as per the instructions. The 14" duct comes off the top of the heat jacket( with a limit switch installed) and goes to my cold air return of my oil burning furnace. The fan from my oil furnace pushes the air through the house and is running most of the time. I fired up one burner and all is well. I have a magnetic temperature gauge on the face of my Hyfire 2. With one burner going it can get up to 550* at full burn. When I start up the second burner the stove gets up to 700+. My question is that I installed per the instructions, so why is the heat not being pulled off the stove? What can I do to fix this. I did not put the "extra" convection blowers on the Hyfire 2. The instructions say to keep them off to help the stove pull in air. It looks like the stove is running fine and cranking the heat. So my situation is that I need to move hot air off the stove and through the house. Any ideas ???? I have attached a few pics as well. Thank you. Matt

IMG_0303.jpeg
(27.86 KiB) Viewed 51 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
New Hyfire 2
[nepathumb]16191[/nepathumb]

IMG_0304.jpeg
(21.07 KiB) Viewed 28 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
Going into cold air
[nepathumb]16192[/nepathumb]

IMG_0315.jpeg
(21.98 KiB) Viewed 27 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
At idol
[nepathumb]16193[/nepathumb]

IMG_0309.jpeg
(25.21 KiB) Viewed 41 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
Switches I got from a post here THANK YOU !!
[nepathumb]16194[/nepathumb]

IMG_0312.jpeg
(23.86 KiB) Viewed 19 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
One burner going full
[nepathumb]16199[/nepathumb]

IMG_0300.jpeg
(17.64 KiB) Viewed 17 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
Both going
[nepathumb]16196[/nepathumb]

IMG_0325.jpeg
(23 KiB) Viewed 16 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
Both going temp way too hot
[nepathumb]16197[/nepathumb]

IMG_0313.jpeg
(46.95 KiB) Viewed 30 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
Ashes
[nepathumb]16198[/nepathumb]
Matt E
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire 2

Re: Moving Hot Air off stove

PostBy: niawatch On: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:13 pm

Matt,
We seem to have identical problems although i have the pocono...exact same issues. i just bought an inline duct fan from airboosterfans.com...i got the 12" as the pocono has a 12" hole in the jacket. I plan on putting it about 5 or 6 feet from the stove in the round duct.... my hope is that this inline fan will help "wash" the heat off the stove and get it into the furnace/ductwork. i am optimistic--the pocono is running 700+ degrees but i cant seem to pull the heat off of it with my furnace blower.
i dont know if the inline fan is your answer or not---i will see this week as i will install it tomorrow or tuesday.
mike
niawatch
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pocono

Re: Moving Hot Air off stove

PostBy: gambler On: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:25 pm

I would say the furnace blower is pulling air from the cold air ducts right past your hy-fire. To make it work well you need to hook one side of the cold air duct to the intake of the hy-fire jacket or terminate the cold air duct in the basement. In either case you need to have all of the air going to the furnace blower pass through your hy-fire.
Remember that in order to pull air through you stove the air will need to be replaced. Without replacement air the hot air will go nowhere.
gambler
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Visit Leisure Line Stove

Re: Moving Hot Air off stove

PostBy: Freddy On: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:43 pm

What Gambler said.... in order to get heat off the stove you have to allow cold air to get on the stove. It looks like you have no cold air returning to the coal stove.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: Moving Hot Air off stove

PostBy: Matthaus On: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:57 pm

Hi Matt, thank you for selecting Leisure Line to heat you home. Your installation looks very professional and clean, congratulations! As the hot air jacket instruction diagram states, the flow shown is a suggestion and needs further input from an HVAC professional to ensure that your unique situation is properly handled. As niawatch and Gambler have suggested the addition of an inline duct fan and the reconfiguration of your cold air return will help solve the situation and bring more heat off the stove.

I'm curious as to what the fan limit switch is controlling, are the fans still on the Hyfire or are they removed? From your picture it looks like there is no inline duct fan, is this correct? The intended use for the hot air jacket and fan limit is to create a source of hot air for your house furnace fan to distribute, the drawback is the the cold air return to the jacket is not filtered, but is rather pulling air from the basement. We always recommend that some source of air pull the hot air from the Hyfire and make it available for the house furnace to distribute with the fan since the house furnace is pulling air from the cold air return as well it will never pull enough air off the Hyfire hot air jacket on it's own without some modifications to the duct work.

The ideal situation would be for the cold air return to be diverted through the hot air jacket and the fan limit control a 14" inline duct fan. This makes sure that every drop of heat is pulled off the stove and pushed into the house and provide a source of filtered return air instead of pulling it out of the basement. Since this suggestion is not practical in most installations it is rarely done, however if you place a diverter (a manual damper or piece of sheet metal that is adjustable and blocks the flow of air) in the cold air return just before the air passes over where the Hyfire is tied in you can install a couple 6 or 8" flex ducts and divert a good amount of the air through the hot air jacket.

Have you discussed this install with your dealer? If you have and he is unable to help, please send me a PM with your phone number and a good time to call, and myself or Dave will call you to discuss possible solutions in more detail.
Matthaus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110 Dual Fuel
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Lil' Heater (rental house)
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Buckwheat Anthracite

Re: Moving Hot Air off stove

PostBy: Matt E On: Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:53 pm

Thank you for your reply. To answer some of the questions you have:

I do not currently have an inline duct fan.

The fan limit switch on the 14" top duct on the Hyfire is to control the fan from my oil furnace. It runs most of the time. Once in a while when the coal furnace is idol it may not be running.

I did not mount the two fans that would go on the bottom back corners that blow the hot air out the front ports, and the ports have the cap in them.

Right now the the air is being pulled from the basement (same room) as the Hyfire. The air is coming from the furnace jacket and the two holes in the back where the blowers would mount. When I put my hand by the holes I can feel the air being sucked in.

Thank you Matt
Matt E
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire 2

Re: Moving Hot Air off stove

PostBy: gambler On: Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:35 pm

Matt E wrote:Right now the the air is being pulled from the basement (same room) as the Hyfire. The air is coming from the furnace jacket and the two holes in the back where the blowers would mount. When I put my hand by the holes I can feel the air being sucked in.


Ok, good!! Now go to the main cold air return duct to your furnace and remove a section of it. Now place a cover on the open duct that is closest to your furnace. This way all of the air will have to come out of the open duct from the house, into the basement and through your hy-fire and to the furnace blower.
gambler
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: Moving Hot Air off stove

PostBy: Matt E On: Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:55 pm

Did that. Sorry forgot to add the situation with the cold air is that the cold air return is blocked off, the only "cold air" is coming from the jacket and the 14" duct

So the flow of air would go :
Hyfire 2 with jacket - to 14" duct (on top of jacket) - to cold air box on oil furnace (cold air intake blocked off) - oil fan blows air (hot) out ducts threw house.

Only "cold air" is from the room the Hyfire is in. It gets the air from the jacket and the two holes on the back bottom where the fans would mount.

We followed the diagram posted on Leisure Line's page exactly:

http://www.leisurelinestoves.com/1904137.html

I thought with the cold air return blocked off it would suck all the air off the stove but this is not the case. I looked at the temperature with one burner and with the oil fan running. I ten fired up the second burner and watched the temp go up, up up. I shut down the second burner. and the temp came back down, so I knew that the oil furnace fan was not drawing the hot air off of the Hyfire.

I hope this makes sense and I am describing it correctly. I followed the link above.

Matt
Matt E
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire 2

Re: Moving Hot Air off stove

PostBy: 009to090 On: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:09 am

Matt E wrote:Only "cold air" is from the room the Hyfire is in. It gets the air from the jacket and the two holes on the back bottom where the fans would mount.

Matt, with the Main Distribution fan in the oil burner running, put your hand down in front of one of the two holes where the fans should mount. Is there air being blown OUT of them, instead of being sucked in? All that hot air has got to be going somewhere, I am wondering if you accidently tapped into the HOT side of the furnace Ducting?
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice

Re: Moving Hot Air off stove

PostBy: gambler On: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:29 am

Matt E wrote:Did that. Sorry forgot to add the situation with the cold air is that the cold air return is blocked off, the only "cold air" is coming from the jacket and the 14" duct


How is the air in the basement being replaced?
You need to let the cold air from the rooms in the house flow back to the basement (through an open end cold air return). If the furnace blower is drawing all of its air from the basement and through the hy-fire and you do not allow the cold air from the house to enter the basement you will not move much heat.
gambler
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: Moving Hot Air off stove

PostBy: Matt E On: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:37 am

All doors are open so the air moves. It is easier to talk about than type for me so feel free to PM me. I am not sure I am describing this correctly. All I know is we followed the diagram on the web page. I do thank everybody for the comments, and welcome them. That is why I posted. Matt
Matt E
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire 2

Re: Moving Hot Air off stove

PostBy: gambler On: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:52 am

As we all read your post and made our conclusions, all of which you have answered. I went back and re-read your initial post. After reading it again I see your thermometer is on the front of your hy-fire. And that is fine but that is probably the hottest part of the stove and recieves no air wash from the jacket. That will keep your basement warm. I don't know of any way to measure how hot other parts of your stove are. After re-reading your post I think your stove is working fine. Is it keeping your house warm? What is the air temp between the stove and the furnace?
gambler
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: Moving Hot Air off stove

PostBy: WNY On: Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:13 pm

Nice idea on the switches (hmmm, wonder who gave you that idea?)

I have never had mine that hot, but I have a Hyfire 1, and with both burners, it will get around 550 on the front.

maybe put a backdraft damper in the cold air plenum downstream of where the stove hooks in, so it sucks the air from the stove and not from your cold air return ducts, maybe limit the air coming back so it pulls more from the stove jacket. Maybe a small sheet metal flapper that you can close off to direct more air from the stove.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Moving Hot Air off stove

PostBy: niawatch On: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:35 pm

i installed the 12" inline fan about 6 feet from the stove top. i did see improvement--but not as much as i was hoping for. i do have a manual damper behind where the stove ductwork ties into the cold air supply and i can move it from fully closed to fully open....i have tried both and everything in between.
i do feel the cold air moving down the stairways. i tried removing the end cap of my cold air return in the basement,,hoping this would naturally let cold air from the rooms drop thru the returns,,but i felt no noticible air movement coming out of it...
my next step is to bring some of that return air thru the stove as everyone has said---can anyone recommend the best way? perhaps 2 - 6 or 8 inch round ducts going into the side jacket? or to the holes where the 2 blowers would be? how about adding in-line duct fans into those--hoping to pull air out of the rooms, thru the stove?
thanks for any advice.
niawatch
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pocono

Re: Moving Hot Air off stove

PostBy: Matt E On: Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:08 pm

Update 12-03-09 Here are the steps I have taken:
I blocked off most of the duct where the oil furnace draws the cold air in from. This helped the "suction" if you will to draw the hot air off of the stove, but still was not enough.

I lowered the "limit switch" down just a few degrees on the 14" duct so that the oil blower runs more. Helps, but still not enough

I taped up the 14" duct to make sure there were no leaks.

With all this in place I fired up the second burner and watched it. It went up slow but still too hot.

I added one of the two blower motors on the bottom back of the stove. The installation instructions say not to install the blower motors with the type of install I had. These are the ones that plug into "yellow".

The one motor brought the temp down quite a bit, but still not enough.

I added the second motor to the bottom back and that brought the temp down to the "safe" zone.

I let it run a while and both burrners were going good and it kept the temp down to around 500*

It did take a little while to bring the temp down, but it was very hot and it was a trial and error proses I was trying so I could trouble shoot.

So as it stands now I think I got the heat situation under control with all the little tweaking I have done and with everyone's help :D

"Matthaus" and my installer both came up with this process for me to try and track and it looks like it is working. The real test will come soon enough...

You have all been very helpful, Thank You !!!

WNY Thank you for sharing the switches idea. It makes life good!!! (I can't imagine NOT having them!!!)

I hope this series of posts from all helps someone else that may have this issue.

Thanks again all,
Matt
Matt E
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire 2

Visit Leisure Line Stove