New House With Creaking Floors

Hi All,

Hoping you folks have some thoughts on what my problem is. We are living in a new house which was built 2006-2007. We took possesion in July 2007 and at the time the floors did not squeak or creak. The house is built using joists and supposedly used "the silent floor system". My understanding is the floors are constructed of the joists which are laid out with a certain spacing and then the flooring is laid on top of the joists. The flooring is supposed to be glued on all mating surfaces and then nailed or screwed down to give it stability until the glue sets.

About 6 months to a year after being in the house we noticed a creaking noise in the upstairs hallway leading to a bedroom along the outside wall. This creaking noise became louder with time and spread into the other bedrooms. It is now noticeable nearly everywhere on the second floor and even in the bathrooms which are tiled. The noise has become so loud it wakes my wife when I get up in the morning.

Additional information:

1. The first floor is all wood except for the laundry room, powder room, and an office. There are no noises.

2. The second floor is wall to wall carpeting except the bathrooms which are tiled.

3. I can see the detail on the first floor from the basement. Tru-joist Silent floor is the brand name.

4. The house has a whole house humidifier. Usually 40-60% .

5. The house is forced hot air heated. Coal furnace is primary with propane as secondary.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Will

Go down to the local hardware store and grab a box of floor/decking screws, 1 1/2" long. I use the ones that take a phillips/square head combo bit. Have someone walk where it is squeaking until you track it down then ink a screw right there. You may have to put a couple in to get it quiet. Our house was all staples, constantly creaking. Just laid tile down and screwed the whole subfloor down before Hardyboard. Can't believe how quiet it is now.

Many times I've seen contractors either use staples or nails for subfloor. It's quick, easy, and less expensive than screws but can't stand up to the movement over time.

YMMV

Here's some info...

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/article ... 71,00.html

The contracter must've used nails or staples that are not rsoin-coated. Cheap install job.
Its the nails that are squeeking, as the sub-floor rise and falls over the joists. Its possible the joists and/or subfloor dried out after construction was completed, and now some of them have bows and at least gaps between the sub-floor and joists. The fix in the carpeted rooms is easy: Find out where the squeeks are (not hard to do) then find the joists underneath, and begin screwing 2" or 2 1/2" bugle-head Exterior-Grade screws threw the carpet and into the joists, about 6" to 8" apart, and cover a 3 square foot area with the squeek centered in the middle.
Floors with squeeks that are covered in Hardwood are a little bit trickier to fix, but if you can get under them, and you can see them from below, one trick is this: You can shim the areas where you hear the squeeks, and glue the shims in place.

As a contractor, I have had to fix some unusual squeeks. Unless the nail down job was totally botched, I would look at the support for the floors. Sometimes the whole house is sagging due to inadequate jack posts or bad positioning or poor contruction of the center beams. If it is a modular, all bets are off. I have used staples(1/2 crown) and I find them very adequate as long as enough are used. You said you have the silent floor system so either it isn't nailed or something has moved. I will not use glue anymore unless the homeowner/architect insists on it. I have found it does not bond well and the thick stuff actually keeps the fasteners from pulling the sheet down tight to the stringer. This causes squeeks later on. Just my opinion, but it comes from working with the stuff.

Kevin

My stairs squeek like crazy especially in the winter when its dry. I've been able to fix many but not all of them with some of the techniques listed above. So, I try to look on the bright side though. Nobody's going to sneak in w/o my knowledge. It's kinda like a burlar alarm.

Thanks for the tips guys. A lot of food for thought here.

One thing I didn't want to mention was the general contractor for the house was/is a real bozo. This was his first house and the issues we've had in other areas would make your jaw drop. I'd go after the guy in court but he also happens to be my neighbor

This is why I don't recommend buying a new house. New house means new troubles.

I remember when the wife & I were house hunting, my mom was in my ear every chance she got "you gotta buy new ... you don't want someone elses problems ... blah blah blah .... (and similar advice about cars ).

They bought their house new for $30K back in the early 70's ... things are a little different in MA these days ...

Not one wall in that house is straight!! Never mattered growing up there, but as soon as you start remodeling, it throws a wrench into the mix. All the doors & their frames rotted to nothing & the property floods every rainstorm in 2 places, since the contractor rushed through & did everything cheap cheap. There's a 100 other issues that I can't think of at the moment ...

I agree. New isn't always "best"

You obviously know that something was not done as promised. I only use GRK screws, and when you do the research, you'll know why. They are torx heads, self aligning with two different rate screw pitches built into the screw. You will NEVER use a POS phillips-headed anything after you try these. http://www.grkfasteners.com/ (OK, maybe drywall/plaster screws...)They are available at most quality lumber yards, or you can buy direct. Goggle them and find the details.
I agree with the adhesive haters, but Liquid Nails is pliable and is more forgiving than all the other brands, and works well in cold weather. Something in your structure is allowing movement, or the plywood nail-down was done on a late Friday afternoon by a bunch of stoners. I also use 1/2" crown staples (2"), 3" OC, not the typical Bevis and Butthead nail job 12"OC. It's fast and still cost effective. Having said all that, can you easily get at the sub-floor? Also, is this a 3/4" T&G
subfloor without a second layer for strength and support?
Did someone 'Go European' and lay out the joist using 19.5" centers? Are they 16" OC, 12" OC? What spans are we talking about, and joist height? We all see them, have to fix them, fire the idiots that do this stuff....and still it happens.
Can't leave the job in reality if the crew isn't trustworthy. Must be the 12/365 warranty: 12 paces,.... 365 minutes...

whistlenut wrote:You obviously know that something was not done as promised. I only use GRK screws, and when you do the research, you'll know why. They are torx heads, self aligning with two different rate screw pitches built into the screw. You will NEVER use a POS phillips-headed anything after you try these. http://www.grkfasteners.com/ (OK, maybe drywall/plaster screws...)They are available at most quality lumber yards, or you can buy direct. Goggle them and find the details.
I agree with the adhesive haters, but Liquid Nails is pliable and is more forgiving than all the other brands, and works well in cold weather. Something in your structure is allowing movement, or the plywood nail-down was done on a late Friday afternoon by a bunch of stoners. I also use 1/2" crown staples (2"), 3" OC, not the typical Bevis and Butthead nail job 12"OC. It's fast and still cost effective. Having said all that, can you easily get at the sub-floor? Also, is this a 3/4" T&G
subfloor without a second layer for strength and support?
Did someone 'Go European' and lay out the joist using 19.5" centers? Are they 16" OC, 12" OC? What spans are we talking about, and joist height? We all see them, have to fix them, fire the idiots that do this stuff....and still it happens.
Can't leave the job in reality if the crew isn't trustworthy. Must be the 12/365 warranty: 12 paces,.... 365 minutes...

I can check out the first floor joist spacing but I do not have easy access to the sub-floor on the second floor since the whole of the second floor is carpeted except the two bathrooms which are tiled. If I pull up the rug it is doubtful I'll be able to get it back into place. I'm told restretching it leads to rips and tears and never looks the same.

By the way, your comment about stoners isn't far from the truth. This guy had his cronies wire and plumb the house and probably lay the floor as well. The plumber was a confirmed drunk, I found the vodka bottles in the front yard, and the electrician was either drunk or on drugs. The guy who cleaned up most of the initial problems was a family friend of the builder and a very honest man. He told us the entire story of how things went wrong in the building and probably saved his friend from getting sued right from the get-go. The builder was even stupid enough to pay all the guys in advance and they promptly went out of business when the job was complete.