14 days...and counting

Re: 14 days...and counting

PostBy: rockwood On: Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:54 pm

An official says President Obama plans to talk with former Vice President Al Gore at the White House on Monday as the president prepares for his appearance at a major international climate summit in Copenhagen.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/12 ... te-change/
I can't think of anyone worse that Obama could "huddle" with, oh wait...I can think of a few that would be just as bad. :roll:
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Re: 14 days...and counting

PostBy: stockingfull On: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:02 pm

Mark it down: Until "mainstream" scientists sign on that it significantly has affected the overall data and conclusions it supports, "Climategate" is going nowhere.
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Re: 14 days...and counting

PostBy: jpete On: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:23 pm

Aren't the "mainstream" scientists the ones accused of cooking the books?
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Re: 14 days...and counting

PostBy: KLook On: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:26 pm

But as has been pointed out Stockin, as long as "mainstream" scientist get Gov. money they will not rock the boat. Follow the money.
Mark it down.

Kevin
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Re: 14 days...and counting

PostBy: rockwood On: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:28 pm

stockingfull wrote:Mark it down: Until "mainstream" scientists sign on that it significantly has affected the overall data and conclusions it supports, "Climategate" is going nowhere.

Naw, environmentalists/special interest groups with politicians in their back pocket have more power. That's what this whole thing is about, money, power and controlling you and I...has very little to do with anything else.
Look who Obama is consulting with before Copenhagen. (Mr.Gore) Now that's one of your "mainstream scientist"(s) :roll:

"Follow the money."
Right on the money Kevin
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Re: 14 days...and counting

PostBy: rockwood On: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:31 pm

jpete wrote:Aren't the "mainstream" scientists the ones accused of cooking the books?

Bingo!
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Re: 14 days...and counting

PostBy: stockingfull On: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:15 pm

Of course, Gore's not a scientist. But he's spent more time on this subject than any of us has, and he knows where the scientists on this subject are, and he can report on what they're saying in reaction to the news. It's either something big, or it ain't.

And, on that point, is anybody, even Faux News, reporting changed minds of prominent or a significant number of scientists who've been working on this? I haven't heard of any, and that silence is getting louder as every day passes after the "leak."

If there isn't a significant change of sides, you may wish to consider the peculiar timing of the East Anglia "leak," coming as it did less than a month before the Copenhagen meetings. After all, if you wanted to derail the deal -- without allowing any meaningful opportunity to assess the news or its impact -- wouldn't you wait to pop your "story" until about that same time...? Does anybody here, even the most ardent fossil fuel advocate, think Big Energy is above that sort of thing?
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Re: 14 days...and counting

PostBy: rockwood On: Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:51 pm

stockingfull wrote:If there isn't a significant change of sides

:roll: There won't be, They (big Al and the rest of 'em) have to "ride {this} psychotic horse to the burning stable", no turnin back now. If they do admit being wrong they'll be the biggest fools who perpetuated the biggest farce in recorded history.

stockingfull wrote:you may wish to consider the peculiar timing of the East Anglia

That's beside the point. Doesn't matter who exposed it or when, the fraud itself is what matters.
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Re: 14 days...and counting

PostBy: Richard S. On: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:11 am

stockingfull wrote:Of course, Gore's not a scientist. But he's spent more time on this subject than any of us has, and he knows where the scientists on this subject are, and he can report on what they're saying in reaction to the news. It's either something big, or it ain't.


I'd be more than willing to debate Gore on this topic and would be willing to bet I'd bury him. I'm completely serious when I say that too. He's nothing but a mouthpiece hence the reason he has refused to debate anyone on this issue in a public forum.



Does anybody here, even the most ardent fossil fuel advocate, think Big Energy is above that sort of thing?


No they aren't but the new "Big energy" companies have much more to lose that the old ones. You do realize there is more money to made by those that support this? The profits in energy will be shifted from one market to another although at a much larger cost to the end consumer. Companies like Shell Oil, Exxon, Goldman Sachs and hundreds of others you think of being losers will be be reaping huge benefits. Do you really think they will sit on the sidelines and watch their business's crumble? They will be happy to provide this product and once regulated with a guaranteed market you can expect the big boys to come in and sweep these upstarts aside.

http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=171&filename=962818260.txt

Mike
Had a very good meeting with Shell yesterday. Only a minor part of the
agenda, but I expect they will accept an invitation to act as a strategic
partner and will contribute to a studentship fund though under certain
conditions. I now have to wait for the top-level soundings at their end
after the meeting to result in a response. We, however, have to discuss
asap what a strategic partnership means, what a studentship fund is, etc,
etc. By email? In person?
I hear that Shell's name came up at the TC meeting. I'm ccing this to Tim
who I think was involved in that discussion so all concerned know not to
make an independent approach at this stage without consulting me!
I'm talking to Shell International's climate change team but this approach
will do equally for the new foundation as it's only one step or so off
Shell's equivalent of a board level. I do know a little about the Fdn and
what kind of projects they are looking for. It could be relevant for the
new building, incidentally, though opinions are mixed as to whether it's
within the remit.
Regards
Mick


I'll also note that wihtin the relesaed files was list of "potential funding" sources that included four private companies heavily invested in the renewable energy market including this one in the US:

http://www.rnp.org/

------

The Who wrote:Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss
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Re: 14 days...and counting

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:51 am

Absolutely the best article I have ever read on the subject of GCC (global climate change):

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/29/magaz ... ted=3&_r=2

Within you'll find Freeman Dyson, an Obama-loving, Bush-loathing liberal genius employed by one of the most independent institutions in the US. It is his independent genius forwarding his opposing viewpoint on climate change that unhinges the left wing global warming thugs.
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Re: 14 days...and counting

PostBy: rockwood On: Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:12 am

Thanks Mike, Ill have to read that when I get time.
Mr Dyson is brilliant, I watched an interview he gave about climate change a while back.
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Re: 14 days...and counting

PostBy: stockingfull On: Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:08 am

mikeandgerry wrote:Absolutely the best article I have ever read on the subject of GCC (global climate change):

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/29/magaz ... ted=3&_r=2

Within you'll find Freeman Dyson, an Obama-loving, Bush-loathing liberal genius employed by one of the most independent institutions in the US. It is his independent genius forwarding his opposing viewpoint on climate change that unhinges the left wing global warming thugs.

Interesting, Mike, but typically off-point.

The article on Dyson was published on March 25, 2009, and depicted an iconic old contrarian in Princeton, whose own wife doesn't agree with his skepticism on GW.

Coming, as it did, months before the East Anglia "leaks," the piece is of no help whatsoever in evaluating their significance, or not. Its certainly isn't about somebody who changed his/her mind because of them.
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Re: 14 days...and counting

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:19 am

Stockingfull wrote:

...whose own wife doesn't agree with his skepticism on GW.


That was laughably weak!


You should try reading the article rather than skimming it.

The Times writer takes considerable effort to explain that Dyson's thinking is revered by scholars and the political left.....until he opposes the popular global warming theory. Then, characteristically, the political left attempts to assassinate his character.

Thanks for being true to form.


The larger point, of course, it that it's all a farce of considerable proportion that will soon have the left looking like total fools, that is, if they have the character to remain true to science.
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Re: 14 days...and counting

PostBy: Richard S. On: Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:59 am

That article is quite old, I read it a long time ago.

... “His mind is still so open and flexible,” Sacks says. Which makes Dyson something far more formidable than just the latest peevish right-wing climate-change denier. Dyson is a scientist whose intelligence is revered by other scientists — William Press, former deputy director of the Los Alamos National Laboratory and now a professor of computer science at the University of Texas, calls him “infinitely smart.” Dyson — a mathematics prodigy who came to this country at 23 and right away contributed seminal work to physics by unifying quantum and electrodynamic theory — not only did path-breaking science of his own; he also witnessed the development of modern physics, thinking alongside most of the luminous figures of the age, including Einstein, Richard Feynman, Niels Bohr, Enrico Fermi, Hans Bethe, Edward Teller, J. Robert Oppenheimer and Edward Witten, the “high priest of string theory” whose office at the institute is just across the hall from Dyson’s. Yet instead of hewing to that fundamental field, Dyson chose to pursue broader and more unusual pursuits than most physicists — and has lived a more original life.

Among Dyson’s gifts is interpretive clarity, a penetrating ability to grasp the method and significance of what many kinds of scientists do. ....




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Re: 14 days...and counting

PostBy: stockingfull On: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:35 am

mikeandgerry wrote:Stockingfull wrote:

...whose own wife doesn't agree with his skepticism on GW.


That was laughably weak!


You should try reading the article rather than skimming it.

The Times writer takes considerable effort to explain that Dyson's thinking is revered by scholars and the political left.....until he opposes the popular global warming theory. Then, characteristically, the political left attempts to assassinate his character.

Thanks for being true to form.


The larger point, of course, it that it's all a farce of considerable proportion that will soon have the left looking like total fools, that is, if they have the character to remain true to science.

Hey Mike, do you know what an "objective fact" is?

Let me give you two examples: The Times piece on Dyson and his GW skepticism was published on March 25, 2009. The story of the Hadley Institute "leak," now known as "Climategate," broke on November 19, 2009. Those are "objective facts."

Would you agree that it fairly can be concluded from those "objective facts" that Dyson's position on GW hasn't changed as a result of "Climategate?"

Nobody's "assassinating" anybody here, Mike. You may be trying to commit intellectual suicide, but you're doing that completely on your own.
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