Shenandoah Wood Coal Stove Poor Output

 
Pete69
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Post by Pete69 » Sun. Dec. 13, 2009 8:23 pm

What is the stove temp?


 
brian315
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Post by brian315 » Mon. Dec. 14, 2009 8:43 pm

depends where I measure its about 350 near top edge of stove on the side 1/4 turn from the flue outlet, the mono reading is .025 aprox, the scale grads are in .025, its a 0- 2"wc magnahelic, the stack temp when the reading was taken was 244 degrees, I was surprised to not find more draft at that flue temp

 
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Cap
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Post by Cap » Mon. Dec. 14, 2009 9:21 pm

oliver power wrote:
Cap wrote:Brian, if you are having problems drafting, a baro will make matters worse. Baro's reduce draft to prevent your bed of coal from burning to quickly thus not making the heat everybody else is telling you is escaping up the flue. Get your system tight especially above the bed of coal.

A manometer should be just above the outlet stove piping. A manometer will help more until you straighten out your flue piping issues..
Baro's don't reduce chimney draft. They reduce excess drawing of the stove air, by pulling in room air. They draw enough on the stove to exit the fumes, leaving the heat in the stove. If the baro damper is closed, it's like not having one. I don't know about other's, but I don't know how the Shenandoah is designed on the inside. I'm assuming it is a combo stove, and may not have a very good way of extracting heat from gasses, before entering the exaust pipe. I would always recommend a baro damper in a combo stove when burning coal. A temp gauge on the stove pipe would tell you whether or not the coal is burning as it should be. With the manual damper fully open, your pipe temp would probably be around 150* - 200*, and the stove should be cranking out heat. If the stove is not cranking out heat at those pipe temps(or higher), you need to install a baro damper. We are all assumeing your chimney draft is bad, as was said.
Me thinks you are thinking too hard. Baro's add air to the vacuum created in the flue thus slowing down your burn in the firebox. This in turn does not allow your appliance to create the heat it otherwise would make with the baro closed ( or not installed ). It's most important duty is to swing open/closed based off of the outdoor barometric pressure to avoid a high heat/burn situation with a really cold & dry ambient air mass.
Forget about theory * leave heat in the stove*. It's a tall tale. My tests show otherwise.

 
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Post by brian315 » Mon. Dec. 14, 2009 10:05 pm

I'm not going to argue the merits of a baro in my situation, I don't think there is enough draft present to warrant installing one unless I improve draft to the point it needs controlling, as you stated the lack of draft is one reason for my low heat output and the other is a poor coal burning appliance the stove is a barrel with a hole in it, and a under fire inlet, thats it, no heat exchanger, no type of gas retention at all, about as caveman as you can get, pardon me gieco, I know I can build a better stove at a friends sheet metal shop if I had the time, the problem is I wont retire for another 150 years if this economy stays like this

 
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Post by oliver power » Tue. Dec. 15, 2009 11:45 pm

OK Brian, Let's trouble shoot some more....... You say you have blue flames dancing on top the bed of coals. Question; What are the blue flames like? 1.)Blue flames are very short(kind of like a candle), & slow moving (or a little faster than a candle). You have air comming up around your grates. And it is simply a very poor design for coal burning. I doubt it is a chimney drafting problem. 2.)If your flames are 2 - 3 inches high, and jumping around like they are on steroids, you have an over the fire air leak. But should still get lots of heat from the stove. Along with plenty of heat being lost up the chimney. I'm guessing #1 is your problem. The air is comming up around your grates. Which also explains the good wood fires. 3.)A well designed, dedicated coal stove would have long, lazy, slow blue flames. The blue flames in my HITZERS are about 11 inches tall. Very slow, and lazy. Let us know........

 
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Post by brian315 » Wed. Dec. 16, 2009 9:05 am

Yes they are small blue flames maybe and inch high not very active flames either

 
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oliver power
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Post by oliver power » Wed. Dec. 16, 2009 9:30 am

brian315 wrote:Yes they are small blue flames maybe and inch high not very active flames either
I was afraid of that. From reading all the replies, as well as my own experience, I come to the conclusion that the stove is simply poor design for coal. You sure got everyones brains working. Not being there in person, I know I was scratching my head. Then I got to thinking about the characteristics of the blue flames, as well as heat output of different stoves I've had. Your stove fits #1 in my previous reply. Lets see if anyone wants to add to this conclusion.


 
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Post by brian315 » Thu. Dec. 17, 2009 5:21 pm

Im posting new pictures now take a look at the grate and stove in general and see what you think

Attachments

IMG00255.jpg

grate

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IMG00257.jpg
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backside of door

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IMG00247.jpg

flame

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Cap
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Post by Cap » Thu. Dec. 17, 2009 7:29 pm

Brian, fire box is large HOWEVER it appears to be sloped in order to allow the ash to fall out but also to act in the same way a hopper would work.
I like the design but I think the size is misleading. The BTU output may be less than what you'd think. Stick with it. It should produce results if you keep it fed.

 
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Post by brian315 » Thu. Dec. 17, 2009 7:35 pm

Its real cold up here and supposed to stay that way for a week, I'll try getting as much coal as I can burning, I have wood in there now and the thing is cranking out heat like crazy.

 
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Post by Pete69 » Thu. Dec. 17, 2009 7:53 pm

I would have to agree, that is a poorly designed stove for burning coal. If you watch crags list long enough you can usually find a cheep coal burner that would make your coal burning experience more pleasant. If you're intent on trying to make that stove burn coal I see a few inherent design flaws you may be able to improve on. First, it looks like the ash, and load door are one. We cant change that but the important thing is that when it is closed, air can't pass between the door and the divider between the ash and load sections of the stove. A rope gasket glued to the divider, that seals tight against the door when closed will prevent air from bypassing the fire in that area. the small shaker grate, that doesn't cover the entire bottom will be a constant source of grief. Unshakable ash will build up around the edges leaving the fire only in the center. If you bring the sides in closer to the diameter of the grate, maybe by adding another layer of brick, that may help. If you have any friends that can weld, a couple supports welded to the inside sides of the stove to support a plate steel baffle plate would do well even when burning wood. Simply making sure the door seals tight against the divider may be all that is needed to gain a hotter fire.

 
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Post by oliver power » Fri. Dec. 18, 2009 9:08 am

Yes, very pooly designed for burning coal. Agree with everything Pete69 says. The reason for the little blue flames is that the air is going around the grate, and not up through the grate. If I were going to continue to burn coal, I'd be looking for a different stove. If you felt like playing, do as pete69 says......., Start out by stopping air from comming up past where that sheet metal is in the front. It might be as simple as fastening a big thick piece of fire proof insulation. Maybe build a ledge for the insulation to set on. If it works, go from there. Also, how is the door gasket itself? It may also be leaking air above the fire? Look at one of the newer threads called "Dancing Blue Lady pic thread". Those are the kind of blue flames a dedicated coal stove produce.

 
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Post by Stanb999 » Fri. Dec. 18, 2009 2:20 pm

I think the real issue is he can only have a coal bed like 3-4" in the front... Kinda thin for coal. No?
It's probably due well for burning Bit coal not anthracite.

 
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Post by brian315 » Fri. Dec. 18, 2009 5:18 pm

I made a seal for the divider between firebox and below grate compartment out of sheet metal kind of like a drip edge, it's in the photos, and the door gasket should be replaced I think, I'm thinking the real problem is the design, a mound of coal wont burn like a column will, hense the weak burning and BTU output, some fire brick to get a deeper bed and block the air from sides of mound might help

 
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Post by Pete69 » Fri. Dec. 18, 2009 5:33 pm

The sheet metal divider you made needs to seal tight against the stove and door, to completely seal any air that might rise past it, either between the divider and the door, or the divider and the stove. If any air can bypass it, it will be robbing draft through the grate. A small amount of leakage at that point will make a big difference.
From the pictures, it doesn't look like it could seal completely, because of the contour of the door. which is why the recommendation of a extra seal, like the fireproof insulation or rope gasket.


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