Re: Econo Stove Blower Problems

cmperry · Post by **cmperry** » Sun. Dec. 13, 2009 2:31 pm

gerry_g wrote:
cmperry wrote:Gerry, thanks for the info,if I wanted to oversize an inverter generator for a Hyfire 2 how many watts would you recommend. Thanks again, it's starting to make sense now
I was afraid someone would ask something like this! I don't know all the specs involved to give an honest answer. Will you be tempted to plug something else in?

I've seen a lot of inverter generators as I have camped (we usually dry camp). Folks with 1000W units tend to fire their temper. Folks with 2000W units tend to be happy campers. Those with 2600+ watt units can keep their cool with the camper's AC. Heck, even pop ups have roof ACs these days.

Except for weight and size, I personally prefer brushless conventional units. They are a lot cheaper as well.

no, I wouldn't need to plug anything else in at the same time as the stove. For me anyway this issue would be solved if I could calculate how many watt generator (inverter) that I would need to run just the stove reliably. I'm just falling short on the brains dept. on how to figure this out. I like the inverter type because of the smaller size,noise,fuel usage, and the ability to run safely my computer (all not at once with stove). Thanks for the help Gerry in educating me on this issue and really it doesn't seem to be that big of a deal,just need to size/oversize the generator correctly. Thanks again

gerry_g · Post by **gerry_g** » Sun. Dec. 13, 2009 10:55 pm

cmperry wrote:no, I wouldn't need to plug anything else in at the same time as the stove.

A any conventional generator (not inverter) 2000 Watts will more than do the job. A 1500 Watt probably unit would do fine. They both have plenty to spare.

Don't forget a heavy duty extension cord, not the typical 16 gauge outdoor cord.

scotty · Post by **scotty** » Mon. Dec. 14, 2009 10:13 am

so what can be done to get ,what really is a coal trol issue to work with a generator ??????? I'm going to test mine today ,I guess I never thought their would be an issue. My generator is kinda old but works great and it's 8,000 watts.

gerry_g · Post by **gerry_g** » Mon. Dec. 14, 2009 10:50 am

scotty wrote:so what can be done to get ,what really is a coal trol issue to work with a generator ??????? I'm going to test mine today ,I guess I never thought their would be an issue. My generator is kinda old but works great and it's 8,000 watts.

Nobody has identified it as a Coal-trol issue as opposed to a dirty power issue! Coal-trols simply require fairly clean generator power that reasonably conforms to AC power standards. Many electronic devices require clean power.

Your old generator certainly is a conventional design. You should have no problems unless you use a long lightweight power cord.

Simply use a conventional generator/alternator (as you already have, they produce clean power if not corrupted by some heavy electronic switching loads) Stay away from inverter generators other than pure sine wave fairly heavy duty units. For example, one poster reported everything worked fine with a 6300 Watt sine wave inverter generator.

Conventional generators are FAR cheaper than inverter generators as well. So save money with a conventional generator and use a few bucks to get heavy duty power cords, not the typical 16 gauge outdoor cord.

Johnshan · Post by **Johnshan** » Mon. Dec. 14, 2009 11:13 am

gerry_g wrote:
scotty wrote:so what can be done to get ,what really is a coal trol issue to work with a generator ??????? I'm going to test mine today ,I guess I never thought their would be an issue. My generator is kinda old but works great and it's 8,000 watts.
Nobody has identified it as a Coal-trol issue as opposed to a dirty power issue! Coal-trols simply require fairly clean generator power that reasonably conforms to AC power standards. Many electronic devices require clean power...

I realize that you know everything, but I wouldn't be so quick to make that statement.

gerry_g · Post by **gerry_g** » Mon. Dec. 14, 2009 12:22 pm

Johnshan wrote:
gerry_g wrote: Nobody has identified it as a Coal-trol issue as opposed to a dirty power issue! Coal-trols simply require fairly clean generator power that reasonably conforms to AC power standards. Many electronic devices require clean power...
I realize that you know everything, but I wouldn't be so quick to make that statement.

I'm very willing to learn. Please point me to any report of a Coal-trol that operated on mains but malfunctioned when on generator that includes a power quality analysis (not just peak voltage) at the Coal-trol with all other devices they connect operating. I did use the word "identified".

Or perhaps you can provide an explanation of how any electronic device can operate on mains but fail when supplied with essentially the same power (clean sine wave at near nominal voltage, with all loads operating) via a clean generator?

This IS NOT A FLAME, it is an honest request for REAL detailed information!

morrisfamily3098 · Post by **morrisfamily3098** » Mon. Dec. 14, 2009 12:24 pm

i have a 6000 w generator. when my power goes off I have it tied to a break out box that runs my coal stove, lights, fridge, and deep freezer. used it twice last winter. once for about 8 hours and the second for 3 days. worked great I have a manual switch that turns off the main breaker and I start the gen then turn on the breaker to my break out box. I have heat light and food. coal-trol doesnt know the differance. I got the gen at lowes I tink about years ago.

gerry_g · Post by **gerry_g** » Mon. Dec. 14, 2009 12:47 pm

morrisfamily3098 wrote:i have a 6000 w generator. when my power goes off I have it tied to a break out box that runs my coal stove, lights, fridge, and deep freezer. used it twice last winter. once for about 8 hours and the second for 3 days. worked great I have a manual switch that turns off the main breaker and I start the gen then turn on the breaker to my break out box. I have heat light and food. coal-trol doesnt know the differance. I got the gen at lowes I tink about years ago.

I have a similar setup, a Yamaha 5200 Watt generator (voltage regulated alternator) wired to a multi-circuit transfer switch box. Thus we both use the the house wiring. If run all you have as well as a computer (switching supplies have a nasty load) Used it 3 times with no issues.

I've also run it (for a test) off a 2000 Watt Pro-sine inverter for 3 days. 2000 Watts is significantly over sized for my Pioneer.

With no problems observed, I didn't bother scoping the power at the stove.

Johnshan · Post by **Johnshan** » Mon. Dec. 14, 2009 2:21 pm

gerry_g wrote:
Johnshan wrote: I realize that you know everything, but I wouldn't be so quick to make that statement.
I'm very willing to learn. Please point me to any report of a Coal-trol that operated on mains but malfunctioned when on generator that includes a power quality analysis (not just peak voltage) at the Coal-trol with all other devices they connect operating. I did use the word "identified".

Or perhaps you can provide an explanation of how any electronic device can operate on mains but fail when supplied with essentially the same power (clean sine wave at near nominal voltage, with all loads operating) via a clean generator?

This IS NOT A FLAME, it is an honest request for REAL detailed information!

I did this on another thread, you will find the o-scope reading there.

gerry_g · Post by **gerry_g** » Mon. Dec. 14, 2009 4:00 pm

Johnshan wrote:
gerry_g wrote: I did this on another thread, you will find the o-scope reading there.

If you are referring to Econo Stove Blower Problems

It appears time to give the brushes and slip rings on that generator some serious attention. Poor brush-slip ring contact will can easily cause such such a mess. You can't expect and electronic motor speed control to deal with (or cause) that noise. I assume you had no high wattage switching loads such as halide lamps with electronic ballasts operating at the time. Also no AC/DC motors.

Generators with brushes provide clean power UNLESS the brushes or slip rings are making poor contact. This can be caused by ingesting grit, normal long term wear, corroded springs (or clogged so brushes don't have the proper pressure), corroded slip rings and other factors.

Brushless alternators have an advantage here, no brushes to wear or be affected by dirt over time.

cmperry · Post by **cmperry** » Mon. Dec. 14, 2009 6:59 pm

gerry_g wrote:
cmperry wrote:no, I wouldn't need to plug anything else in at the same time as the stove.
A any conventional generator (not inverter) 2000 Watts will more than do the job. A 1500 Watt probably unit would do fine. They both have plenty to spare.

Don't forget a heavy duty extension cord, not the typical 16 gauge outdoor cord.

Gerry, thanks for the info. I'm going to try to "read between the lines" here and dump my inverter for use on the stove and get a dedicated regular 2000 watt for the stove. Thanks again.

gerry_g · Post by **gerry_g** » Mon. Dec. 14, 2009 8:32 pm

cmperry wrote:
I'm going to try to "read between the lines" here and dump my inverter for use on the stove and get a dedicated regular 2000 watt for the stove. Thanks again.

When shopping, you will probably find larger generators more common and more likely discounted (assuming brand name, not cheap Chinese no name)

Extra power never hurts other than hurting your back lifting it. I mentioned 2000 Watts because it is plenty for the stove and a light or two.

If you can find a decent priced brushless unit, they hold up better to grit and long term storage. That said, I have a 18 year old Generac brush type in my camper, works perfect, clean output. I do run it at least once every three months to keep the carb and slip rings clean.

WNY · Post by **WNY** » Mon. Dec. 14, 2009 8:37 pm

On the other thread I just posted about LL & Generator problems,. I just plugged in my LL with Coaltrol to my Homelite 3500W and it works fine, no strange noises, or buzzing or humming.

Matthaus · Post by **Matthaus** » Mon. Dec. 14, 2009 10:34 pm

I have moved previously posted information from the Econo Blower Problem Thread that I felt would be helpful in fully exploring this topic, if I have missed anything or messed up I'm sure my fellow forum members will be kind enough to point it out.

Thanks.

Rick 386 · Post by **Rick 386** » Mon. Dec. 14, 2009 11:18 pm

From the locked thread:

By: gerry_g On: Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:58 am

Rick 386 wrote:
Flyer5,
I also ran an extension cord across the driveway to my SIL's house to power her Alaska Cast Console with the Alaska controls (rheostats only). Shortly thereafter she experienced issues with her stove. We had to replace the stoker motor on the Alaska. All other motors on it appear to still be fine.

Coincidence ????? I don't know but it does make you think.

Rick

To get more information, did you happen to use a heavy duty extension or a typical lightweight 16 gauge outdoor cord? This sounds like a long run. If you ever try it again, use a cheap volt meter and check the voltage at the stove while all motors are running. Maybe the stoker motor didn't appreciate low voltage?
gerry_g

gerry_g,

I don't use 16 ga cords. All mine are 12 ga. Numerous lengths for what ever is required. I think the one that I used in that particular situation was 50' direct to the surge protected 6' power strip.

Rick