Ash Disposal?

Re: Ash Disposal?

PostBy: DavidL On: Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:59 pm

Goes out in the trash. I bought a couple of 10 gallon metal trash cans with lids. After they are filled, I place a 13 gallon kitchen trash bag with draw ties over the 10 gal can and flip it over; fits perfect.
DavidL
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Energy King
Stove/Furnace Model: 480EK

Re: Ash Disposal?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:41 pm

tvb wrote:On a whim, I posted a listing on Craigslist under free stuff for anyone who wanted the ash I generate and got an overwhelming response.


That's funny and a lot of people are paying to get rid of it, i could certainly see a "market" for it especially in rural or areas away from NEPA. The one thing I never worried about when delivering coal in the winter was getting stuck or not being able to make the delivery because of snow or ice. The winter time in snow ironically was the best time to go to many places, once you put that ash down on snow its like putting down concrete and you didn't need much.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Ash Disposal?

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:10 pm

:o Do they know how corrosive the stuff is?

I'd heard that the "cinders" that used to be scattered on the roads when I was a kid were coal ash, but not that it was being used for that purpose any more.
stockingfull
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Yellow Flame
Stove/Furnace Model: W.A. 150 Stoker Furnace


Re: Ash Disposal?

PostBy: Yanche On: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:37 pm

The "cinders" put on roads years ago were likely slag from industrial sized fluid bed coal fired boilers. The molten ash was poured into a cold water pool which rapidly cooled it and made a popcorn like material. My best friends father was the "cinder king" of northwestern NJ and eastern PA. He hauled cinders from many industrial plants including the huge Bethlehem, PA steel mill. In summer cinders were used to make hollow core "concrete type" blocks. It was a light weight block not a strong as one made from concrete aggregate. In winter the cinders were sold to state and local governments for slippery road application.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Ash Disposal?

PostBy: reckebecca On: Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:57 am

tvb wrote:On a whim, I posted a listing on Craigslist under free stuff for anyone who wanted the ash I generate and got an overwhelming response. Got rid of a couple of barrels of it today and have a waiting list for the next load already.


Great idea! I just posted an ad myself after seeing your idea. :) Thanks!
reckebecca
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Saey 92

Re: Ash Disposal?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:59 am

stockingfull wrote::o Do they know how corrosive the stuff is? .


Can't be any worse than the salt and if you have a 200 foot driveway that's straight up then it's kinda pointless not to use it
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Ash Disposal?

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:23 am

Richard S. wrote:
stockingfull wrote::o Do they know how corrosive the stuff is? .


Can't be any worse than the salt and if you have a 200 foot driveway that's straight up then it's kinda pointless not to use it


Don't know which is worse, but the difference is that everybody knows salt is corrosive, while I'm pretty sure many don't know that there's a huge difference between the ash we take out of our coal stoves and the ash people take out of their wood stoves or fireplaces (which actually raises soil pH level), to say nothing about the heavy metals, etc.

The people down in TN probably are taking a crash course on this about now. :shock:
stockingfull
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Yellow Flame
Stove/Furnace Model: W.A. 150 Stoker Furnace

Re: Ash Disposal?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:32 am

The heavy metal content is elevated slightly above dirt. You're another that doesn't read the fine print. Ash is considered clean fill by the EPA, at least anthracite is and I'm pretty sure Bit coal is. Ironically one of the biggest purchasers of ash is concrete producers used on roads.

Edit: there's some other documents with some more specifics, try coal radiation. This was the first one popped up from the EPA:

http://www.epa.gov/rpdweb00/tenorm/coalandcoalash.html
Disposal and Reuse

Typically 70 to 80 percent of coal ash is disposed of in dry landfills. (Sluiced ashes and sludges are first dewatered in ash ponds then landfilled.) A landfill for a typical coal fired power plant (500-1000 Megawatts) requires about 30 to 60 hectares (74 to 148 acres). These landfills range from about 4 to 80 hectares (10 to 197 acres) and may be as much as 9 m (30 ft) deep.

The remaining coal ash (roughly 20 million MT per year) is used as additives in a variety of applications depending upon the characteristics of the ash. The following list shows the application of the ashes and sludges that were used

*

Fly Ash, 75% of use is in concrete and cement and in concrete blocks. It is typically substituted for cement in concrete at about 10-30%. It is also used as a filler for asphalt at a rate of about 12%.
*

Sludge, 57% of use is in wallboard, as roadbase, and other miscellaneous applications, but the total volume used is minimal compared to the total production.
*

Boiler Slag, 54% of use is as blasting grits and roof granules
*

Bottom Ash, 30% of use is for snow and ice control and other miscellaneous applications.

Since the early 1970s, all three types of coal ash have been used in construction projects. Coal ash is used to level out uneven terrain or applied as a stable fill for building construction. Typical applications include sites where shopping malls, housing developments, and industrial parks are planned for construction. Other projects have included the construction of road embankments, runways, public transportation system structures, and soil stabilization.

Other emerging applications of fly ash include the construction and sinking of artificial reefs, metal (aluminum and iron) extraction via direct acid leaching, and as a filler in paints and plastics. Examples of products which may contain fly ash include paints and undercoatings, auto bodies and boat hulls, PVC pipes, battery cases, bowling balls, utensils and tool handles, vinyl floor covering, and shower stalls.


The "construction and sinking of artificial reefs" ? I wonder if its treated in anyway?
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Ash Disposal?

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:43 am

And the heavy metals issue ducks the corrosion question you purported to put aside above.

Fact remains coal ash is highly corrosive while wood ash isn't. And I'll bet most people don't know that.
stockingfull
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Yellow Flame
Stove/Furnace Model: W.A. 150 Stoker Furnace

Re: Ash Disposal?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:55 am

I'm not ducking anything and i didn't pose a question. I stated it can't be any worse than salt which implies it's corrosive. Having said that throwing a little bit in your driveway is not going to have the same effect as driving down the road at least if you're driving on a Pennsylvania road. I don't know how they handle the roads up there but around here they go out with trucks BEFORE it snows putting down a liquid that I think is calcium chloride. How well you think your car is going to stand up to that? The salt and cinders come out during and after the storm. They've been slacking the last few years but in general they don't mess around here because they can't, other than the Wyoming Valley every road is like going on roller coaster ride.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Ash Disposal?

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:58 am

Richard S. wrote:The "construction and sinking of artificial reefs" ? I wonder if its treated in anyway?


On this one, I do happen to know that we made a "slurry" of some heavy stuff called "QCM" (for Quebec City Mining) and fly ash in order to create a heavy, pumpable material to create fixed ballast where it was needed to lower the center of gravity of some ships we were lengthening at Sun Ship in Chester, PA back in the 70's.

The fly ash was used as an "emulsifier" to grab the QCM, the slurry was pumped into the double bottom tanks by concrete pumpers and then we dewatered it until it was dry for the most part.

What I don't know is whether the tanks corroded through and the ships are now -- accidentally -- artificial reefs. :lol:

(j/k -- I don't think there was any problem)
stockingfull
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Yellow Flame
Stove/Furnace Model: W.A. 150 Stoker Furnace

Re: Ash Disposal?

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:01 am

Richard S. wrote:I'm not ducking anything and i didn't pose a question. I stated it can't be any worse than salt which implies it's corrosive. Having said that throwing a little bit in your driveway is not going to have the same effect as driving down the road at least if you're driving on a Pennsylvania road. I don't know how they handle the roads up there but around here they go out with trucks BEFORE it snows putting down a liquid that I think is calcium chloride. How well you think your car is going to stand up to that? The salt and cinders come out during and after the storm. They've been slacking the last few years but in general they don't mess around here because they can't, other than the Wyoming Valley every road is like going on roller coaster ride.


There's still the problem of whether people taking the ash know how corrosive it is.

As to the DPW side of things, all of the stuff is going up while budgets are being slashed. Going forward, I think we're going to be seeing more of the snowy street conditions that many of us remember as kids. Bring out the Flexible Flyers!
stockingfull
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Yellow Flame
Stove/Furnace Model: W.A. 150 Stoker Furnace

Re: Ash Disposal?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:11 am

Well if my town is smart they''ll start mixing the salt with the ash like all the boroughs did around here many years and then hope you don't show up to sue them for screwing your car up. :out:

The only issue mechanically it can't get wet because a big chunk of ash will freeze and block the equipment.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Ash Disposal?

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:21 am

No suit if the corrosive nature of the stuff isn't misrepresented. And it's more likely that the DPW will know and make it known that the stuff they're using is still as corrosive, or more so, than the salt or cc they've been using.

Somebody grabbing some of ours to put on their driveway might not. We might not have the duty to tell them, but we probably should.
stockingfull
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Yellow Flame
Stove/Furnace Model: W.A. 150 Stoker Furnace

Re: Ash Disposal?

PostBy: cArNaGe On: Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:58 am

Richard S. wrote: I don't know how they handle the roads up there but around here they go out with trucks BEFORE it snows putting down a liquid that I think is calcium chloride.


At the PennDot facility on my way home. The Tank says Salt Brine
cArNaGe