Coal Cost

bick65 · Post by **bick65** » Sun. Dec. 13, 2009 2:02 pm

275.$$$$$$$$$ A ton I can heat with wood cheaper all day long My 2 year old Harman up for sale soon
60 to 80 pounds a day . 600.00 for a load of logs 6 to 7 cords I love my coal stove but cant afford it
how much for Harman mark 2 and a half ton of baged coal ????

bick

Post by **Rob R.** » Sun. Dec. 13, 2009 2:29 pm

I'll assume that you cut/split/stack/season the firewood yourself, have you considered the cost of the time involved with all of this? Plus you need a chain saw, wood splitter, gasoline, etc. If you still think you can save money by getting a load of logs, sell the wood by the face cord and buy coal.

whistlenut · Post by **whistlenut** » Sun. Dec. 13, 2009 2:55 pm

I used to burn 18 full cords a year (big building). (before Outdoor boiler were around) Got all your fingers? How's your back? Does the Chiropractor have you scheduled for months ahead? Tractor available? Skidder? Splitter? Processor?
165 a cord here right now, cut, split and delivered...(oak, maple, ash. poplar, yellow birch), all green. That is dirt cheap for not having to own any equipment....in my opinion. Do you have 12 kids to help out 'for a reduced rate?
Insect control on speed-dial? How's the creosote factor in your neighborhood? Fire Dept have a web cam on your home?

I still burn a few sticks, but my mega burn stopped in 1972 when I LEARNED that everything has a cost, and that my body parts were worth a hell of lot more than a damned pile of split wood.
My brother one-ups this: he buys 4 picker loads, has two tractors, 3 splitters 6 saws....and burns oil....WTF!
He only sells the wood, and only does it to keep from going crazy...called a hobby.(retired)
I'm really sorry about the loss of love for coal, and I hope everything works out well with the wood. You are one more person who stays away from oil....and the trail of wealth that leaves our country. Do you have any interest in a time share in Dubai?
I heard that there are some 'killer' deals right now! :surrender:

PS: How much for the Mark 2? I know where there a dozens of wood boilers available, too.

rockwood · Post by **rockwood** » Sun. Dec. 13, 2009 3:21 pm

Wood is much harder and you have to figure that into the cost unless someone is delivering, cutting, splitting, stacking it for you. At $200 plus per ton it would be cheaper for me to use natural gas, but that's Utah so at $200 (plus) it must be cost effective in your area or people wouldn't use hard coal.
Don't know where you live but soft coal may be something to check into because it's usually much cheaper.
Going from coal to %100 wood would be a nightmare IMO.

whistlenut · Post by **whistlenut** » Sun. Dec. 13, 2009 4:16 pm

Good afternoon Northern Utah...haven't been there since the 60's....
We may be on opposite ends of the country so to speak, but the TT load of common sense that tipped over in your neighborhood was certainly medicinal. I've still got all my fingers and toes....not as straight as they used to be, walk hunched over....limp a little,......... but unless I could mechanically do wood, it would be the last choice on a list of 999 other options.

The 10,000,000 BTU bio-energy boiler down the road a piece, is a testament to not reinventing the wheel. Throw enough money out there, somebody will grab it. IF you are the guy's who maintains 'some engineering dream', you sure have job security re-engineering the "masterpiece" to try to made it work reliably. Yes, I'm down there a great deal because I'm interested in learning and helping out. Richard needs to make a new WTF...were they thinking (WTFWTT) smile!

Borrowed from the AHS Website: You do the math...before you sell the Mark 11. I've burned over 1000 tons in 37 years....as Cuba Goodings said to Tom Cruise: 'SHOW ME THE MONEY!'

Fuel Source Alternatives Comparison to Coal
The table below compares the cost of historical fuel sources. Alternative energy sources are only included indirectly under the assumption that alternative energy sources such as wind and solar power are typically used via the electricity that they are configured to produce. Note that the price of electricity can vary widely.

How to use this chart…
Check the price of Anthracite coal in your area. Find that price in the Anthracite Coal column below. In the row corresponding to that coal price, you will find the prices of other heating fuels necessary to match the BTU/h output to price ratio for coal. If coal costs $130 per ton, to get the same amount of energy (BTU/h) for the same cost, heating oil would have to cost $0.65 per gallon and propane would have to be $0.42 per gallon. Information from US Dept. of Energy.

Fuel Cost BTU Conversion Chart (Assuming Equal Efficiency)

Anthracite Coal
Fuel Cost BTU Conversion Chart (Assuming Equal Efficiency)

The copy and paste doesn't work, so here is the link to the chart:

http://www.alternateheatingsystems.com/compare.html

Heating Value by Unit Chart

The following is a listing of heating value per unit for common heating fuels. The column of equivalent units is based around the heating value of 1 ton of wood chips. For example, to get the same heating value BTU's) as a ton of wood chips, you would need to burn 54.9 gallons of #2 fuel oil.

Fuel Type BTU/Unit Equivalent Units
Softwood 15 million BTU/cord 0.51 cords
Hardwood 24 million BTU/cord 0.32 cords
Green Sawdust 10 million BTU/cord 0.76 tons
Kiln Dried Sawdust 18 million BTU/cord 0.42 tons
Wood Chips - 45% moisture 7.6 million BTU/cord 1 ton
Hogged Wood 20 million BTU/cord 0.38 tons
Bark 10.5 million BTU/cord 0.72 tons
Wood Pellets - 10% moisture 16 million BTU/cord 0.48 tons
Natural Gas 100,000 BTU/therm 76 therms
Propane 91,600 BTU/gal 83 gal
Methane 1,000 BTU/cu ft 7,600 cu ft
Ethanol 76,000 BTU/gal 100 gal
Kerosene 135,000 BTU/gal 56.3 gal
#2 Fuel Oil 138,500 BTU/gal 54.9 gal
#4 Fuel Oil 145,000 BTU/gal 52.4 gal
#6 Fuel Oil 153,000 BTU/gal 49.7 gal
Waste Oil 125,000 BTU/gal 60.8 gal
Biodiesel/Waste Vegetable Oil 120,000 BTU/gal 63.3 gal
Gasoline 125,000 BTU/gal 60.8 gal
Anthracite Coal 28 million BTU/ton 0.27 tons
Bituminous Coal 24 million BTU/ton 0.32 tons
Electricity 3,413 BTU/KwH 2,227 KwH

Sources: U.S. Department of Energy; The Biomass Energy Foundation

bick65 · Post by **bick65** » Sun. Dec. 13, 2009 7:37 pm

Hi

1)my back is fine for a 45 year old
2)I buy wood by the chery picker
3)my chim is fine easy to clean with the flex kit right from the clean out
4)A man can sit on his fat ass (Wood is good exercise )

5)Im not here to fight piss and cry !!!!!
6)Just noting the what I think is a high price for something
mined in usa 4 states away .

maybe some tips on how to get more BTU's would be more helpfull

but that would not impress your forum freinds now would it whistlenut
sounds like you need your whistelnut kicked !!!! This old wood spliters up
for it. save you insults they lower your IQ

bick

Post by **Richard S.** » Sun. Dec. 13, 2009 7:47 pm

bick65 wrote: maybe some tips on how to get more BTU's would be more helpfull

bick

Start a new thread for that, cost varies but keep in mind 1.2 cords of wood per ton of coal. If we take the $165 whitsletnut quoted and $275 for the coal:

Coal(bulk) $1,544.01
Wood $1,155.00

If the coal is $160 per ton:

Coal(bulk) $898.33
Wood $1,155.00

Fuel Comparison Calculator

Post by **Richard S.** » Sun. Dec. 13, 2009 7:52 pm

whistlenut wrote:
Hardwood 24 million BTU/cord

Anthracite Coal 28 million BTU/ton

Both are too high and not adjusted for efficiency. The calculator I have adjusts for both efficiency and BTU if you want.

There's good chart here for the wood as it lists it by species:

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/article ... value_wood

The coal will be 24 to 25 million on average.

jpete · Post by **jpete** » Sun. Dec. 13, 2009 8:09 pm

Sent you a PM.

If you are close enough, I might be interested in upgrading from my Mk I

Squeaks · Post by **Squeaks** » Sun. Dec. 13, 2009 8:52 pm

What about burning both? I have no idea about your furnace but it's nice to burn wood and coal together.
My wood is free... go to the top of the mountain and bring it down. I probably burn a small lawn tractor load a month (with coal). The nice part is I am also throwing in logs that are 10 inches in diameter and 33" long so I don't need to play with it much

When I use the logs I am only using a shovel full of coal a day. This is with an outdoor furnace which is over 100' away from my house and it heats the domestic hot water as well. My wife takes the hottest showers known to man and like the house to go no lower then 70*. This is my first year so at the end of the year I'll have better figures. Of coarse I'll have to throw out the first months figures because I had no idea on what I was doing. Spending more fuel just to get it up to temp then I was using at keeping it at temp.

New Hope Engineer · Post by **New Hope Engineer** » Sun. Dec. 13, 2009 9:42 pm

bick65 wrote:Hi

1)my back is fine for a 45 year old
2)I buy wood by the chery picker
3)my chim is fine easy to clean with the flex kit right from the clean out
4)A man can sit on his fat ass (Wood is good exercise )
5)Im not here to fight *censored* and cry !!!!!
6)Just noting the what I think is a high price for something
mined in usa 4 states away .

maybe some tips on how to get more BTU's would be more helpfull
but that would not impress your forum freinds now would it whistlenut
sounds like you need your whistelnut kicked !!!! This old wood spliters up
for it. save you insults they lower your IQ

bick

whats with the attitude?
folks here are just trying to help ya out.

rockwood · Post by **rockwood** » Sun. Dec. 13, 2009 10:24 pm

bick65 wrote:how to get more btu's

More coal

Tell us details about your setup, baro damper etc., how hot you run the stove, how much area heated...
Is soft coal available where you are? I'd check into that/try it out before going to all wood because it could be much cheaper...even cheaper than wood.

lowfog01 · Post by **lowfog01** » Mon. Dec. 14, 2009 5:16 am

bick[/quote]
whats with the attitude?
folks here are just trying to help ya out.[/quote]

Yeah, what's with the attitude? Did you even check out out the archives for this subject before making your post? This has been covered many, many times and the conclusion is always the seem. Your going to be paying a lot more for your wood in non monetary items then you would with coal. You asked the question, you got the response - too bad if you don't like the way it was worded or what was said. That too was free. Take it or leave it, but say thank you. Lisa

bick65 · Post by **bick65** » Mon. Dec. 14, 2009 4:19 pm

hi

seems some people are mad at me I did not intend this I was pointing out that coal is not as good of a deal
as two years ago. Yes whistel Im missing a body part but not from fire wood protecting your butt
in the first gulf war!!!!!!!! a finger But im not crying about it. Working on tanks can bite so I did not like
the missing body part coment . sorry foy spelling errors I Miss every 9th key stroke LOL .I will be more
polite in all my post here on out .

bick

Post by **Richard S.** » Mon. Dec. 14, 2009 4:47 pm

Looks like we have misunderstanding, lets all be friends and get away from the personal stuff ok?

bick, whistlenut is little bit too exuberant sometimes in his love for coal.

Otherwise great and knowledgeable contributor. So lets get back to the purpose here which is the discussion between the costs of coal and wood.

As I already mentioned its going to vary depending on where you're at, here in NEPA it's not even close based on cost alone for split and delivered wood. More importantly if you want to factor in the work and convenience factor coal is hands down winner in my cases.