Generator issues?

Re: Generator issues?

PostBy: Matthaus On: Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:59 pm

Billyirons wrote:I am looking to buy a generator to run my LL Pocono with Coal-trol.
I just tried an almost new Duromax Elite MX4500 generator and it is NOT compatible
with my stove. I'll just have to find a generator that works with the Coal-trol.
Does anyone else have a good recommendation for a portable generator?


Not sure if they are still available but I have a Coleman 2250 AC type gen, was only $300 or so. These Alternator types seem to work OK with most electronics, so might be a good choice for you.
Matthaus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110 Dual Fuel
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Lil' Heater (rental house)
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Buckwheat Anthracite

Re: Generator issues?

PostBy: Billyirons On: Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:01 pm

Thanks Matthaus
I read that Coleman is in Chapter 11 and I really would like
a warrantee, parts and service in case of generator problems.
We all know Murphy's Law.
Billyirons
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Pocono
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

Re: Generator issues?

PostBy: 2001Sierra On: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:20 pm

When you folks say the genset does not work with one stove or another what are the symptoms?
2001Sierra
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90 Chimney vent
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Buderus Oil Boiler 3115-34
Stove/Furnace Model: Keystoker 90 Chimney Vent

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Re: Generator issues?

PostBy: snuffy On: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:17 am

I hate when this happens! Just when I think I have a working solution to keeping my home minimally powered, I have to go back and retest everything!! I'm using a Honda EU2000iA to power a EFM VT series oil burner with three zone circulators. By using power management aka starting a circulator to draw heat when needed or for hot water, I also can power a refrigerator and a few lights, again by managing the load. I now have a Harman Mark III with its standard blower but I don't think it should affect lights or a 37" LCD TV running simultaneously. The EFM worked fine on the Honda but now I guess I'll have to retest it and watch this tread.

Incidently, I had a well experienced electrician connect a weather proof box outside and run appropriate wiring to a switch box nearby the heating units. At this location a switch disconnects the EFM from house current and connects it to the generator circuit. A second line from this switch leads to a upstairs recepticle where I can plug in light, TV, or Refrigerator, however I have to make sure the EFM isn't calling for heat.

And now I need to get back to my Digital and Analog Fiber Optic Communications readings.

Merry Christmas to All
snuffy
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman SF250 & Mark III backup
Other Heating: Oil Hot Water

Re: Generator issues?

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:12 am

Billyirons wrote:I am looking to buy a generator to run my LL Pocono with Coal-trol.
I just tried an almost new Duromax Elite MX4500 generator and it is NOT compatible
with my stove. I'll just have to find a generator that works with the Coal-trol.
Does anyone else have a good recommendation for a portable generator?



Can you tell me what you experienced with the Duromax Generator ? Did you experience issues with other appliances ?
What size power cord are you using for back feed ? Thanks ,Dave
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: Generator issues?

PostBy: Billyirons On: Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:32 am

Since I read the various threads, I am mostly concerned with the Coal-trol.
My home is ALL electric so I will not consider the huge generator that would be required.
I am looking to power the refrigerator and the Pocono. That is all I need in an emergency.
I connected the Duromax with a 25 foot 12 Ga extension cord to only 1 appliance at a time.
The fridge ran normally. The fridge is old with no fancy electronics.
I unplugged the fridge and then plugged in the Pocono.
The Pocono blower motors stuttered, groaned and buzzed badly and did not come up to speed.
At the time of the test the Pocono feed rate was appx 45.
Since my hands never left the
plug ,I quickly (in seconds) unplugged and returned to house power and the Pocono ran fine.
Billyirons
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Pocono
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

Re: Generator issues?

PostBy: gerry_g On: Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:22 pm

Billyirons wrote:I am looking to buy a generator to run my LL Pocono with Coal-trol.
I just tried an almost new Duromax Elite MX4500 generator and it is NOT compatible
with my stove. I'll just have to find a generator that works with the Coal-trol.
Does anyone else have a good recommendation for a portable generator?


That generator has plenty of power, in not an inverter unit. However it is not brushless.

I suspect it has defective brush-slip ring contact creating fairly significant electrical noise. If a Coal-trol works on mains but not a generator and decent power cord is used, it is the generator not the Coal-trol.

It is technically impossible for any electronic device to "know the power source". Electronic devices can only react to waveform of the power supplied. Thus, your generator is not supplying reasonably clean sine wave AC at the load.

Brushes and slip rings are subject to manufacturing defect, wear, brush sticking, slip ring corrosion... Most work very well, some do not.

The only generator type that virtually always (unless it has a fried winding or flaky contacts) provides clean AC is conventional brushless. (actually they are alternators but seldom called that). Pure sine wave inverter generators also work IF they have the needed energy surge capacity measured in Watt-seconds or other energy units. I've never seen such specified. To be fair, Coal trol configurations don't specify surge energy requirements either. Surge Watts is meaningless when the load in not resistive or linear.

I do not believe Coal-trol units are as sensitive as folks suspect, rather there are a number of poor generators out there (or in poor condition). In forums such as this, folks with problems are far more likely to post than folks without problems.
gerry_g
 
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: Electric, Propane
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer LE Top Vent

Re: Generator issues?

PostBy: gerry_g On: Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:51 pm

This is also posted in a related topic:

For those wondering if generator power is a problem and unique to Coal-trol, take a look at a common consumer/small business computer UPS FAQ.

http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/support/faqs/general-ups-faqs.html

"
Can I use my UPS in conjunction with a generator?

CyberPower UPS systems are not designed to work with generators. Many generators output a ‘dirty’ AC signal that is not recognized by the UPS, which causes it to remain functioning off battery power.
"

Really all that means is there are plenty of generators out there that are pretty bad or poorly maintained.

A good conventional generator with brushes and slip rings in good condition as well as brushless generators DO produce clean AC. Also, some inverter sine wave generators have sufficient surge capacity to keep the AC "clean".
gerry_g
 
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: Electric, Propane
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer LE Top Vent

Re: Generator issues?

PostBy: europachris On: Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:41 pm

Just ran across this today - Yanmar DIESEL (water cooled twin cyl.) inverter generator. I'm sure it's not cheap, but this would be the cat's A$$ for backup power.

I wonder how it does with surge current?(starting 2-wire well pumps, etc.) Our 3/4hp two-wire well pump only requires 7 amps/240V to run, but something close to 45 amps starting current.

Chris
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europachris
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 350/Iron Fireman
Stove/Furnace Model: Custom bituminous burner

Re: Generator issues?

PostBy: 009to090 On: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:06 pm

europachris wrote:Just ran across this today - Yanmar DIESEL (water cooled twin cyl.) inverter generator. I'm sure it's not cheap, but this would be the cat's A$$ for backup power.
eG100i.pdf

eG100i_release.pdf

Looks nice.... I would get one. Unfortunately, they don't specify if its a True Sine Wave output. All they say is "WAVE TYPE = SINE WAVE" :wtf:
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice

Re: Generator issues?

PostBy: gerry_g On: Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:00 pm

DVC500 at last wrote:
europachris wrote:Just ran across this today - Yanmar DIESEL (water cooled twin cyl.) inverter generator. I'm sure it's not cheap, but this would be the cat's A$$ for backup power.
eG100i.pdf

eG100i_release.pdf

Looks nice.... I would get one. Unfortunately, they don't specify if its a True Sine Wave output. All they say is "WAVE TYPE = SINE WAVE" :wtf:



It does say "The inverter system and CVCF control ensure power supply comparable to any commercial power source."

I suspect it doesn't handle current surges or out of phase loads as well as power company drops. It would take a massive generator (even conventional) to do so. That said, I also suspect it isn't under designed and would work fine.
gerry_g
 
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: Electric, Propane
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer LE Top Vent

Re: Generator issues?

PostBy: minimax On: Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:32 pm

I have a Generac 3500 xep and when my power went off for 19 hours I had no problems running a LL Top Vent
minimax
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer Le top vent

Re: Generator issues?

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:13 pm

minimax wrote:I have a Generac 3500 xep and when my power went off for 19 hours I had no problems running a LL Top Vent



thats cool!! makes ya smile huh? :D

ok so with that name ...you got how many hp on your 8 ft boat!! :shock:

isnt that what the minmax stands for?? glen-l design?
Poconoeagle
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Buckwalter & Co. , EFM520
Stove/Furnace Model: No. 28 Glenwood 1880, Alaska

Re: Generator issues?

PostBy: minimax On: Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:32 pm

about 40 years ago I had a RV that I took to Leisure Point De, and it was a Moniter MINIMAX
so I took that name for my handle on my 19 foot boat ( 100 HP Motor )and kept it ever since that. I did a lot of fishing down there
minimax
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer Le top vent

Re: Generator issues?

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:49 pm

minimax wrote:about 40 years ago I had a RV that I took to Leisure Point De, and it was a Moniter MINIMAX
so I took that name for my handle on my 19 foot boat ( 100 HP Motor )and kept it ever since that. I did a lot of fishing down there



Ahhh cool story thanks. I dabble in boat projects at times and this is what i thought your handle came from..
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http://www.glen-l.com/designs/outboard/dsn-mini2.html
Poconoeagle
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Buckwalter & Co. , EFM520
Stove/Furnace Model: No. 28 Glenwood 1880, Alaska

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