The sooner the better....

Re: The sooner the better....

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:02 am

I don't know what you're talking about, once the Health Care bill is passed into law and in place everything will be fine.

This plan will strengthen Medicare and extend the life of that program. And because it gets rid of the waste and inefficiencies in our health care system, this will be the largest deficit reduction plan in over a decade.


As we all know, the Government is a model of efficient utilization of funds.

You talk to every health care economist out there and they will tell you that whatever ideas are -- whatever ideas exist in terms of bending the cost curve and starting to reduce costs for families, businesses, and government, those elements are in this bill.


One question-has anyone ever met a "Health Care Economist"? Exactly what does "bending the cost curve" mean?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-off ... -democrats

Oh BTW, the bill will increase taxes immediately while the actual plan starts several years later.

They will save money. They will save families money; they will save businesses money; and they will save government money. And they're going to save lives. That's why this reform is supported by groups like the AARP who represents most of America's seniors.


All the more reason not to be part of the AARP.

http://www.americanseniors.org/
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Re: The sooner the better....

PostBy: jeromemsn On: Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:45 pm

So Wood'ncoal I take it that your happy to pay the insurance companies more for less?
Let the system stay as is?

My fear is that we are going to send a very clear message to the insurance companies if this bill is beaten down, not passed. If I was an insurance company and saw that Americans do not want another insurance company as a competitor I would get on my high horse and bill, bill, bill them for so much trust. And they will, will, will just as they have already.

Enough is enough and I have had enough. My daughter will never be able to pay for health care of any kind at the rate it's going up, let alone a house, a car, and all the other day to day expenses. Less and less will pat and in turn more and more of those paying will have to pay more and more. All you do is go the other way, make it cost less and then more can afford it. Make it cheap enough and spread out the cost you could make it mandatory, oh wait then it would be like taking taxes out of your check, taken out before taxes, everybody pays and the cost goes way, way down.
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Re: The sooner the better....

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:42 pm

You're leaving out the cost of "defensive medicine". Doctors ordering unnecessary things to ward off lawsuits. Why not also repeal the 1945 McCarran Ferguson Act like Harry Reid threatened to do? The would break the monopoly companies have on health insurance. And do you HONESTLY believe that the people who get millions of dollars FROM the industry to REFORM the industry in a way that would be detrimental TO the industry?
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Re: The sooner the better....

PostBy: KLook On: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:11 pm

Perfect jpete. The art of convincing the populace that you have made a great change for them when you really didn't.

Kevin
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Re: The sooner the better....

PostBy: topper On: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:17 pm

who is lobbying for you in wdc? (please don't tell me your "vote"...)
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Re: The sooner the better....

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:17 pm

So Wood'ncoal I take it that your happy to pay the insurance companies more for less?
Let the system stay as is?


I didn't say that now did I? Yes, some kind of reform is needed, but this is not the way to do it. Do you seriously believe that costs will be lower with the government running healthcare? That the quality of care will be better? Don't forget the government runs Social Security....oh wait...that's going bankrupt. Oh and the government runs Medicare...oh wait...that's going bankrupt as well....get the idea?

Sure, maybe costs for medical services under the government run plan may be lower the the person receiving the services, but rest assured the shortfall will be made up in the form of higher taxes.
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Re: The sooner the better....

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:13 pm

ErikLaurence wrote:
Black_And_Blue wrote:
topper wrote:we must figure out a way (reasonable or otherwise) to control health care costs - if we don't figure that out all other health care issues are secondary.


Tort reform.


I'm all in favor of tort reform but medical malpractice tort costs were $30.4 billion in 2007. We have a more than a $2 trillion health care system.

Let's say all of those malpractice torts were false (unlikely, hospitals do screw up). You're not going to fix healthcare by cutting costs 1.5%


I think you are forgetting cash pay-offs and out-of-court settlements. You are also forgetting that the activist lawyers have done their job well over the last several decades and the current medical costs reflect excessive safety practices which were induced by fear of malpractice suits.

Your figure is misleading.
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Re: The sooner the better....

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:20 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:
ErikLaurence wrote:
I'm all in favor of tort reform but medical malpractice tort costs were $30.4 billion in 2007. We have a more than a $2 trillion health care system.

Let's say all of those malpractice torts were false (unlikely, hospitals do screw up). You're not going to fix healthcare by cutting costs 1.5%


I think you are forgetting cash pay-offs and out-of-court settlements. You are also forgetting that the activist lawyers have done their job well over the last several decades and the current medical costs reflect excessive safety practices which were induced by fear of malpractice suits.

Your figure is misleading.


Facts are such troublesome things. Do you have any facts to shed some light or are we just hearing your opinions?
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Re: The sooner the better....

PostBy: jpete On: Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:08 am

How's this?

http://advance.uconn.edu/2009/090223/09022302.htm

Such practices were estimated to cost a minimum of $1.4 billion per year in Massachusetts.


Now figure how much that costs nationwide.
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Re: The sooner the better....

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:27 am

jpete wrote:How's this?

http://advance.uconn.edu/2009/090223/09022302.htm

Such practices were estimated to cost a minimum of $1.4 billion per year in Massachusetts.


Now figure how much that costs nationwide.


I'll play.

Massachusetts is the 15th most populous state. However, Massachusetts has more teaching hospitals than almost any other state (save probably California and New York) so that will skew towards an aggressiveness in treatment. So let's assume the average would be $1 billion/state. Now the hard part is how much of defensive medicine is unnecessary. Let's give the benefit of the doubt and say 75% is unnecessary.

That would mean defensive medicine that is unnecessary costs $37.5 billion.

US health care costs $2.4 trillion a year.

Still under 2%.

Don't get me wrong, I think we need tort reform for a lot of reasons. But you're fooling yourself if you think it's going to materially change the financial picture of health care in the US.
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Re: The sooner the better....

PostBy: titleist1 On: Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:46 am

I wonder what effect the cost of malpractice / liability insurance has on the cost of medical procedures.
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Re: The sooner the better....

PostBy: jpete On: Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:20 am

ErikLaurence wrote:
jpete wrote:How's this?

http://advance.uconn.edu/2009/090223/09022302.htm

Such practices were estimated to cost a minimum of $1.4 billion per year in Massachusetts.


Now figure how much that costs nationwide.


I'll play.

Massachusetts is the 15th most populous state. However, Massachusetts has more teaching hospitals than almost any other state (save probably California and New York) so that will skew towards an aggressiveness in treatment. So let's assume the average would be $1 billion/state. Now the hard part is how much of defensive medicine is unnecessary. Let's give the benefit of the doubt and say 75% is unnecessary.

That would mean defensive medicine that is unnecessary costs $37.5 billion.

US health care costs $2.4 trillion a year.

Still under 2%.

Don't get me wrong, I think we need tort reform for a lot of reasons. But you're fooling yourself if you think it's going to materially change the financial picture of health care in the US.


So how does a government takeover help? The country is bankrupt. Every agency is hemorrhaging money for substandard results. How does that make things better?

A "government option" ISN'T competition. We'd be competing with ourselves. It's our money either way.

The other part of stabilizing prices is simply to fix the dollar. The cost of health care didn't go UP, the value of the dollar has gone DOWN. Dramatically.
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Re: The sooner the better....

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:35 am

jpete wrote:
ErikLaurence wrote:
I'll play.

Massachusetts is the 15th most populous state. However, Massachusetts has more teaching hospitals than almost any other state (save probably California and New York) so that will skew towards an aggressiveness in treatment. So let's assume the average would be $1 billion/state. Now the hard part is how much of defensive medicine is unnecessary. Let's give the benefit of the doubt and say 75% is unnecessary.

That would mean defensive medicine that is unnecessary costs $37.5 billion.

US health care costs $2.4 trillion a year.

Still under 2%.

Don't get me wrong, I think we need tort reform for a lot of reasons. But you're fooling yourself if you think it's going to materially change the financial picture of health care in the US.


So how does a government takeover help? The country is bankrupt. Every agency is hemorrhaging money for substandard results. How does that make things better?


I doubt it does. But tossing tort reform out there as a solution to health care is a red herring.

I think the system will blow up. A lot a baby boomers will die at a much younger age because they have no savings and medicare is going to go away. I think what Obama is trying to do might delay that for a period of time but it will inevitably all blow up. Rich people will pay cash for health care. Employers will no longer be able to offer insurance, medicaid and medicare will be broke, so the middle class and the poor will go without.
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Re: The sooner the better....

PostBy: samhill On: Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:03 am

You all seem to be forgetting that the Gov. is covering the costs of all the uninsurered now. They use the E.R. like a family doctor & who foots the bill "us" not ins. co.s nor the hospitals its all just passed on. If everyone has to pay something it would help.
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Re: The sooner the better....

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:13 am

samhill wrote:You all seem to be forgetting that the Gov. is covering the costs of all the uninsurered now. They use the E.R. like a family doctor & who foots the bill "us" not ins. co.s nor the hospitals its all just passed on. If everyone has to pay something it would help.



Yes, and that's the comedy of the whole situation. We already have a "public option". It's called the emergency room. It's just the most inefficient possible "public option". The hospitals don't really mind because everything between full retail price (which no one ever pays) and what the government pays (close to cost) is 100% tax deductible.
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