A Possibly Stupid Question About Installing a Baro Damper

GeorgiePorgie wrote:I just love it when All you guys quote what I post, whether you agree or disagree , it's irrelevant, but I love to have a great laugh !

Carbon monoxide detectors manufacturers, prefer to keep the majority of people ignorant and scared about carbon monoxide, they simply want to sell more of those devices, they turn any tragedy into an advertising campain.

Carbon monoxide was used as fuel during WWII, it's also the resulting fuel from wood gasification, when you see orange flames, it's just the indication of carbon monoxide being formed and burnt.

Personally I really feel sorry and sad for the ( more than handfull ) of people who die every year from carbon monoxide poisoning. However, in every one of those incidences, any of you are welcome to investigate, " There was no flame presence " it's usually generators fume, or barbecue charcoal smoldering , or a car idling in a closed area !

You are ill-informed and dangerous. Please disregard anything this guy writes about CO. How about gas furnaces, gas water heaters and yes coal stoves?? People die every year from these and guess what?? THERE'S A FREAKING FLAME!!!!! You don't know what you are talking about. STOP IT!

By the way, I let it pass before but anyone who would sleep in a home and allow their family to sleep in a home with a the CO detector beeping all night is a couple fries short of a Happy Meal!

GeorgiePorgie wrote:in every one of those incidences, any of you are welcome to investigate, " There was no flame presence " it's usually generators fume, or barbecue charcoal smoldering , or a car idling in a closed area !

You are %100 wrong. Want examples...here's a couple examples right off the top of my head. A couple years ago in a nearby city a roofer set a box of nails on top of the chimney not realizing the natural gas furnace and water heater were using the flue...and guess how the story ends, all in the house were killed that night by CO. Another story, some hunters were using a propane heater in their tent during a snowstorm...guess how it ended....yep, all dead from CO poisoning.

A few notes on Carbon Monoxide. It's effect is cumulative over several hours.. So you can breath a 'safe' amount over several hours and start to have serious health issues !! You don't have to have 'dangerously high' CO levels to get sick or even dead!!

The reason for this dangerous characteristic of Carbon Monoxide is that it attaches to the Hemoglobin in your blood, which normally carries Oxygen to your cells in your body.. The CO attaches to the Hemoblobin where the Oxygen normally does, but it has something like 10x [ten times] the affinity to the Hemoglobin compared to Oxygen.. So it takes 10x as long for the CO to be purged from your bloodstream..

So the CO gets in your bloodstream, and it takes sometimes days for it to be completely gone.. In the meantime, your brain and other organs in your body are deprived of Oxygen, like if you had Pnemonia or other serious pulmonary problems..

People who get CO poisoning look very red, flushed, even beet red.. Because the Hemoglobin is fully 'oxygenated'.. but with CO, not O2..

Sleeping with a CO monitor beeping is like playing Russian Roulette.

Greg L

I'm starting to suspect he may have already been "affected" himself.

we had a fire call and went to a house that had a CO detector going off, we needed to investigate. I know the guy, friends of the family. so we asked when it started, and he said a day ago . he said his went off over the night before, so he fiddled with this and that, reset the detector, kept going off. said eh, must be junk. that night got home from work and borrowed his dads. wow, that one went off. ok, so NOW lets call the fire department after screwing around for 24 hours. at this point his wife of 4 months started feeling sick and went into the hospital. they said if she was in the house a few more hours she was gonna be dead. I really am glad you shut the stove off. you need a baro and a manometer. I really hope pastor55 is reading our posts on this thread, think im gonna pm him.

gitrdonecoal wrote:we had a fire call and went to a house that had a CO detector going off, we needed to investigate. I know the guy, friends of the family. so we asked when it started, and he said a day ago . he said his went off over the night before, so he fiddled with this and that, reset the detector, kept going off. said eh, must be junk. that night got home from work and borrowed his dads. wow, that one went off. ok, so NOW lets call the fire department after screwing around for 24 hours. at this point his wife of 4 months started feeling sick and went into the hospital. they said if she was in the house a few more hours she was gonna be dead. I really am glad you shut the stove off. you need a baro and a manometer. I really hope pastor55 is reading our posts on this thread, think im gonna pm him.

I don't have the draft gauge, the stores didn't have one in. I wanted to get the baro in because this week is going to be hectic as heck (as I'm sure most of you can relate), the stove shutdown had already started and takes awhile to complete and it's a hassle for me to let it go out and bring it back up, and the weekend was the best time for my dad to come up and help with getting things in place...so I put in the baro damper and just kept an ear open for the CO alarm or smoke alarm to go off. I was in the basement for about three or four hours after starting the fire back up and felt no side effects of CO nor did the alarm go off, and I still don't hear anything going off down there.

I did find the cat...sleeping on a chair in the basement. Figured she's closer to the floor so she is kind of a defacto canary. She's still acting like herself. And like I said, I was down there for several hours with no effects, so I think it would be relatively safe. There's a CO alarm and smoke alarm located not far from the stove.

The damper didn't seem to do much, just wobbles a little once in awhile. The flue pipe was near the 160 or 170 degree mark at the elbow going into the chimney, still seems rather warm...but the firebox was radiating a temp closer to a range of 350 to 400 degrees whereas before it was around 300 to 350 degrees, so it must be having some effect. I just have to wait until tomorrow morning when I shake down the ash to see how it's working (or if it's going to inexplicably die on me overnight).

Right now I just set the baro damper to the .02 setting, the lightest one. It's barely moving much at all. Until I can locate a draft gauge I'll just settle for this at the moment, since I can't really fix it right now. I figured as long as the CO alarm's not going off and the coal continues to burn well it can't be all that terrible the way it is, unless someone has some tips for tuning it while I'm still calling around to stores for a draft gauge.

bsilver wrote: I did find the cat...sleeping on a chair in the basement. Figured she's closer to the floor so she is kind of a defacto canary.

Not a good gauge. CO has about the same specific gravity as 'normal' air. It can rise with a heat thermal, or drop with a cold draaft. There are still debates as to where the 'proper' location in a room is, for the CO detectors.

Ok Smart guys, here is a question for you :

Can any of you do the research and statistics and find out, whether more people died from carbon monoxide poisoning before the detectors were invented or after ?

I bet the answer would surprise you.

My point is : Carbon monoxide detectors are good to have, but more important use your common sense and educate yourself on the subject, the detectors are only the back-up.

The real sad point is, none of this stuff is taught in school .

These are young People right out of high school:

http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article ... /802100340

Here a sad common sense mistake ending in a tragedy:
http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article ... -1/NEWSMAP

And many other sad news.
You figure it out.

I had a classmate & her boyfriend die of CO poisoning when they got stuck 4-wheeling, & decided to spend the cold night in the truck. They didn't know the pipe was under mud ... and were found the next morning. Might have had a few too many ... affected better judgement.

I don't think CO itself will burn ..... it's just CO2 with one less molecule -- not very flammable. I think what's flammable is the gas from the fuel that's IN the CO. A generator or a car running top-notch will still kill you in an enclosed space.

Well Smitty , no offense, but that's I meant when when I said this stuff is not taught in school !

I bet you and everone else are very aware of all the warning labels on propane heaters, and generators not to be used in enclosed space !

So would you rely on prevention, or do you think it's better to ignore common sense and rely on a detector ? what if you have a faulty detector ? what if you sleep and did not hear the beep ? How many people you know, who prefer not to sleep at home, simply because they don't have a carbon monoxide detector installed ?

As far as combustibility : carbon monoxide by itself does burn, it burns very efficiently , produces a good blue flame with lots of heat and no byproduct, it simply turns into CO2, some engines run on carbon monoxide as fuel, in many places carbon monoxide is used as heating fuel as well, but please keep in mind, that the people who use carbon monoxide are very aware of its poison nature, and they treat it as such. No messing around !

wlape3 wrote:

Wood'nCoal wrote:CO can be burned?

A correctly installed baro damper will not allow the gases to reverse flow and enter the living space.

Yes, CO can be burned, further oxidized to CO2. CO is produced in the absence of sufficient oxygen for complete combustion. Some CO is always produced in the burning process due to a variety of reasons but not having enough air available will definitely increase it.

I agree. A well installed baro will not allow gases back into the living space. It should be leveled to allow the flapper to swing freely.

While a properly adjusted baro doesn't closes when there is a downdraft, and restricts fumes from flowing out of the baro, it does not prevent fumes from flowing out of the air inlet on the stove. That's why you need a CO detector with or without a baro.

Cheetah wrote: While a properly adjusted baro doesn't closes when there is a downdraft,

Need to proof read before I hit send. Should have been, "While a properly adjusted baro closes when there is a downdraft"

SMITTY wrote:I don't think CO itself will burn ..... it's just CO2 with one less molecule -- not very flammable.

It burns fine. Think of it as half burnt carbon. In some cars they burn it off in the exhaust pipe by pumping air into the pipe. So long as it is hot all it needs is some free oxygen to finish burning.

no offense, but that's I meant when when I said this stuff is not taught in school !

sorry, taught this during fire prevention week to K-6. gave the k class all smoke and CO combo detectors, as the classes in the past all got one from us. BUT if they still need one they are to stop by our hall, which they have done

DVC500 at last wrote:

bsilver wrote: I did find the cat...sleeping on a chair in the basement. Figured she's closer to the floor so she is kind of a defacto canary.

Not a good gauge. CO has about the same specific gravity as 'normal' air. It can rise with a heat thermal, or drop with a cold draaft. There are still debates as to where the 'proper' location in a room is, for the CO detectors.

Really? I thought it was like carbon dioxide, heavier than air. Guess not!