American Arrogance

Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:49 am

Actually, how others have been treated for the same offenses is not only "precedent" but the cornerstone of our law.

In this case, however, the President has brought "change" in the form of a new and refreshing type of "patriotism," focused more on substance and less on symbols, the real meanings of which have been forgotten by so many in this country.
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: brckwlt On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:52 am

stockingfull wrote:Actually, how others have been treated for the same offenses is not only "precedent" but the cornerstone of our law.

In this case, however, the President has brought "change" in the form of a new and refreshing type of "patriotism," focused more on substance and less on symbols, the real meanings of which have been forgotten by so many in this country.



your calling his change refreshing. That is insane but very insightful to how you think

i didnt know socialism was a refreshing change
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:24 am

Brock, ALL gov't is "socialism" at one level or another.

By definition, to "govern" implies control, which implies loss of free will, that is, the "liberty" to do whatever we want, for some collective purpose, namely keeping a society from self-destructing.

We can debate the details but it's just silly to think you're for, just say, the "Patriot Act" busting up the 4th Amendment to "keep us safe," while arguing that it's "socialism" to try to keep us healthy.
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:16 pm

That may be at least partially true, but it becomes how much socialism do you want?

Do we want socialism at ANY cost? Even if that cost destroys the country and possibly the world?

Why can't government "provide for the common defense and promote the general welfare"?

Why does the government feel it has to control everything as if the people aren't capable of controlling their own life?

Why not enforce contracts between parties rather than oppressing one for the benefit of another?
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:30 pm

stockingfull wrote:When and where did you learn about the anthem?

Because I've been in some pretty big ballparks and, while everybody knows hats are to come off, I never saw hatless people with hands on hearts for the Anthem before the summer of 2008.

* * * MY 2000th POST! * * *


Didn't you ever watch an old movie? Your hat goes over your heart for the national anthem.

Here's a photo that shows the ball players with hats over heart. Hard to see but they are all facing the flag for the national anthem.
http://www.fotosearch.com/CLT002/q74775/
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:32 pm

stockingfull wrote:Brock, ALL gov't is "socialism" at one level or another.



The difference is in degrees. The left chooses to interpret the Constitution quite liberally while the right chooses to interpret it conservatively and literally in the context of the Framer's desires. The left is wrong and seeks to subvert the document through equivocation.

Madison saw it coming on the "general welfare" clause.

http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote_blo ... Quote.3254


http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj16n1-11.html
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:43 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:
Didn't you ever watch an old movie? Your hat goes over your heart for the national anthem.

Here's a photo that shows the ball players with hats over heart. Hard to see but they are all facing the flag for the national anthem.


Christ, Mike, I thought you'd found something useful, not a b/w shot of micro-ballplayers! Even with a magnifying glass, though, doesn't prove anything; those ballplayers are (a) in uniform and (b) wearing hats.

What I was and am referring to is the custom when people are hatless and not in any uniform. I've said that all along and nobody's demonstrated the custom yet.
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:45 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:
The difference is in degrees. The left chooses to interpret the Constitution quite liberally while the right chooses to interpret it conservatively and literally in the context of the Framer's desires. The left is wrong and seeks to subvert the document through equivocation.

Madison saw it coming on the "general welfare" clause.


Hardly. You think Bush v. Gore and Citizens United are "conservative" or "literal" interpretations of the Constitution? :rofl:
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:00 pm

stockingfull wrote:Christ, Mike, I thought you'd found something useful, not a b/w shot of micro-ballplayers! Even with a magnifying glass, though, doesn't prove anything; those ballplayers are (a) in uniform and (b) wearing hats.

What I was and am referring to is the custom when people are hatless and not in any uniform. I've said that all along and nobody's demonstrated the custom yet.




hey hey hay.... They are in BROOKLYN tho... :D :lol: ... see my mets theory is building!!!

i too tried to blow it up but couldnt. try going to a vfw hall and start a poll about it??

prob get quite a bit of "advise" about it there!!! :)
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:23 pm

stockingfull wrote:What I was and am referring to is the custom when people are hatless and not in any uniform. I've said that all along and nobody's demonstrated the custom yet.


I do it.

SOMEBODY taught me. I didn't think it up by myself! ;)
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:34 pm

Tell us when it started. How old you were, and who taught you.

Because it's an obscure "custom" for hatless people in civilian clothes.
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: coalkirk On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:38 pm

That's ridiculous. Every public event such as a baseball or football game I ever went to, you see virtually everyone put their hand over their heart during the anthem. Maybe you just weren't paying attention.
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:45 pm

stockingfull wrote:Tell us when it started. How old you were, and who taught you.

Because it's an obscure "custom" for hatless people in civilian clothes.


I told you. Grade school.

I'll admit, when I transfered to a different school in 4th grade, I don't recall them doing it.

Found this when I did a quick search. Maybe it's in one of the obscure tomes I'm sure you have lining the walls of your office to impress your clients.

The US Code (Titles 4 and 36) specifies four circumstances for rendering the hand-over-heart salute:

1. When the US flag is raised or lowered
2. When the US flag is carried past in a review or parade
3. When reciting the pledge of allegiance
4. When the national anthem is played

The saluter should face the flag in all cases. If the national anthem is played when the flag is not displayed, the saluter should face the source of the music.


http://www.usa-flag-site.org/forum/when ... -1768.html
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:52 pm

Whether it's in the U.S. Code or not, it wasn't taught until you wingnutters decided to make it an issue for Obama.

Find me pics of Ike, or Dubya, or Ronnie Ray-guns covering up for the Anthem in a suit. And find them before they were Presidents.
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:57 pm

stockingfull wrote:Whether it's in the U.S. Code or not, it wasn't taught until you wingnutters decided to make it an issue for Obama.

Find me pics of Ike, or Dubya, or Ronnie Ray-guns covering up for the Anthem in a suit. And find them before they were Presidents.


Are you retarded?

I do it now just out of habit. I wasn't in grade school in 2009.
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