American Arrogance

Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:34 pm

cybdav wrote:The images won't load. Can't figure out how to delete this post. Actually the point is still made.



Here's the link to the page; Hyperlinks to each cemetery.

http://www.abmc.gov/cemeteries/cemeteries.php
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: cybdav On: Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:32 pm

brckwlt wrote:I Feel sorry for the old soldier who doesnt agree with defending freedom. That is too bad. If we weren't over seas defending freedom right now things would be 10 times worse then they are now.


I didn't present this well at all. The old soldier is upset that he, and some many others, have fought for our freedom and so many have died and now we have a President who is apologizing for us.

jpete wrote:There's that good old American jingoism the world knows and loves....


I am glad I posted this though. It has really got me to thinking about this subject more. I had to look up the word jingoism and I am guilty of it. To what extent I will ponder. I was all for what happened in Iraq but the more I listen and think about it I am not so sure anymore. I come from a military family. I am an Army brat and extremely patriotic but I have a lot to consider now.

And we do have an extremely biased media. Regardless of whether they are right or wrong I wish they would stick strictly to the facts and clearly mark opinion as opinion. The free printing press was one of the founding principals of this nation but has perverted itself.
Last edited by cybdav on Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: cybdav On: Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:34 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:Here's the link to the page; Hyperlinks to each cemetery.


Thanks mikeandgerry. I kept trying to get to this site the day I posted and it wouldn't load.
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:10 pm

cybdav wrote:I am glad I posted this though. It has really got me to thinking about this subject more. I had to look up the word jingoism and I am guilty of it. To what extent I will ponder. I was all for what happened in Iraq but the more I listen and think about it I am not so sure anymore. I come from a military family. I am an Army brat and extremely patriotic but I have a lot to consider now.


A man who loves introspection loves mankind.

cybdav wrote: ...I wish they would stick strictly to the facts and clearly mark opinion as opinion.


I have had that same desire....a warning label or two for the products of the press!
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:48 pm

stockingfull wrote:But there is great risk in invading countries that haven't invaded us. Like we become "invaders." Plus, recall that we never tried any of that *censored* with the USSR or China, and we haven't recently with Iran or N. Korea. Can you guys figger out why? Sarah Palin didn't know what the "Bush Doctrine" was but, nukes or not, we had never preemptively invaded a country before Iraq -- and we sure didn't agree with the few countries that have (shall we list those?).



Hold the phone. Your recollection of history is a bit fuzzy there, Fuzzy.

Did you forget the sequence of events?

1. Invasion of Kuwait by Saddam in 1990/91
2. Saddam's forces in Saudi beyond the neutral zone
3. Saudi/UAE request for American assistance with Kuwait (both are strategic allies) to repel Saddam.
4. US complies with UN not to invade Baghdad.
5. Terms of surrender/truce include weapons inspections, Saddam's good behavior.
6. UN approves UN resolution 1441 unanimously, calling for Saddam's total disarmament
7. Failed inspections/refusal to allow inspections.
8. Defiance of the treaty of surrender for nearly a DECADE and defiance of UN 1441.
9. US enforces the breach of terms with the aid of Britain and Spain despite UN objection.

The Gulf War was the result of an invasion of an ally (that you say didn't happen). The Iraq War was the enforcement of the terms of surrender and the UN resolution. The Iraq War was unfinished business, not the invasion of an innocent nation as you imply.
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:54 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:
stockingfull wrote:But there is great risk in invading countries that haven't invaded us. Like we become "invaders." Plus, recall that we never tried any of that *censored* with the USSR or China, and we haven't recently with Iran or N. Korea. Can you guys figger out why? Sarah Palin didn't know what the "Bush Doctrine" was but, nukes or not, we had never preemptively invaded a country before Iraq -- and we sure didn't agree with the few countries that have (shall we list those?).



Hold the phone. Your recollection of history is a bit fuzzy there, Fuzzy.

Did you forget the sequence of events?

1. Invasion of Kuwait by Saddam in 1990/91
2. Saddam's forces in Saudi beyond the neutral zone
3. Saudi/UAE request for American assistance with Kuwait (both are strategic allies) to repel Saddam.
4. US complies with UN not to invade Baghdad.
5. Terms of surrender/truce include weapons inspections, Saddam's good behavior.
6. UN approves UN resolution 1441 unanimously, calling for Saddam's total disarmament
7. Failed inspections/refusal to allow inspections.
8. Defiance of the treaty of surrender for nearly a DECADE and defiance of UN 1441.
9. US enforces the breach of terms with the aid of Britain and Spain despite UN objection.

The Gulf War was the result of an invasion of an ally (that you say didn't happen). The Iraq War was the enforcement of the terms of surrender and the UN resolution. The Iraq War was unfinished business, not the invasion of an innocent nation as you imply.



We had no business in GW1

American soldiers should never be asked to die to put a king back on his throne.
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:24 pm

Hey Mike, if we invaded Iraq because of non-compliance with UN resolutions, why did we have to invent all them "WMD's" Colin Powell lied about???

Answer: because we didn't invade Iraq because of UN violations, as you very well know. :verycool:
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:30 pm

ErikLaurence wrote:

We had no business in GW1

American soldiers should never be asked to die to put a king back on his throne.



We always support our allies. Otherwise, we wouldn't have any street cred. Oil is the real king we protect (though I would vote for coal myself).

Also, you had better read the Carter Doctrine, Truman Doctrine, Eisenhower Doctrine, Nixon Doctrine and Reagan's Corollary to the Carter Doctrine which all state or imply our intent to defend the Persian Gulf region with military force to protect our national interests. We have done so since WWII--or do you think that was an illigitimate war too?
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:33 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:We have done so since WWII--or do you think that was an illigitimate war too?


Germany declared war on us. It was appropriate that we declare war on them.
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:36 pm

stockingfull wrote:Hey Mike, if we invaded Iraq because of non-compliance with UN resolutions, why did we have to invent all them "WMD's" Colin Powell lied about???

Answer: because we didn't invade Iraq because of UN violations, as you very well know. :verycool:



Oh....you think I didn't know oil was the real reason?

You are even sillier than I imagined.

We did invade Iraq for UN 1441 as it pertained to our interests in the region, aka Kuwaiti and Saudi oil.

Why does every dimwitted lefty think that if our national interests include oil security, we are somehow immoral. Oil runs the world. Do you want madmen in charge of it?
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:37 pm

"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations – entangling alliances with none."
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:40 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:
stockingfull wrote:Hey Mike, if we invaded Iraq because of non-compliance with UN resolutions, why did we have to invent all them "WMD's" Colin Powell lied about???

Answer: because we didn't invade Iraq because of UN violations, as you very well know. :verycool:



Oh....you think I didn't know oil was the real reason?

You are even sillier than I imagined.

We did invade Iraq for UN 1441 as it pertained to our interests in the region, aka Kuwaiti and Saudi oil.

Why does every dimwitted lefty think that if our national interests include oil security, we are somehow immoral. Oil runs the world. Do you want madmen in charge of it?

Mike, Mike, how can you be so naive? We had Saddam pinned down with the no-fly zone. He couldn't do a thing.

But maybe that wasn't enough... http://hnn.us/article/1000
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: ErikLaurence On: Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:41 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:
Oil runs the world. Do you want madmen in charge of it?


They already are.

Who do you think the Saudis are?

A secular madman like Saddam is far easier to manage than the fundamentalist Islamists who run SA. Saddam was easily bought off with money, people who are motivated by religion are far harder to contain.
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: jpete On: Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:32 am

Why are we sending troops anywhere to enforce UN resolutions anyway?

Our leaders and our soldier took and oath to defend the US Constitution, not some corrupt multinational puppet organization.
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Re: American Arrogance

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:00 am

ErikLaurence wrote:"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations – entangling alliances with none."


Kum ba ya, my Lord....


"We aren't in Kansas anymore, Toto"


I wonder how Charlie Wilson feels about the Jefferson quote, now?


Jefferson also said this:

"“Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just.”
Last edited by mikeandgerry on Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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