Back to Handfired...

Yes, it gets complicated when there's too many variables. I thought your first points would be especially interesting ones for people to talk about here. A lot of girly men run their stokers with an idea that it's more efficient than hand-firing. You challenged that with your own experiences, and it seemed like a good issue to explore.

Before getting the EFM on-line, I relied heavily on a Harman Mag and it really delivered. If your hand-fired works better for you than a Mag, it sounds like quite a unit. Congrats, and Merry Christmas!

Mike

A stoker has the potential to run more efficiently, that does not mean it necessarily will. When firing rates change then air supply has to change in proportion also. How well the stoker does this and how well it is first set up can make a significant difference. At low firing rates the stoker should consume more volatiles and produce far less carbon monoxide. A relatively small chamber fired hotter works better under most conditions.

A hand fired when fired at its sweet spot and controlled by an experienced user can rival the efficiency of the stoker, but only at that particular firing rate or close to it.

Richard

I think stoker stoves may be the answer for many people who want ease of operation and live in newer well insulated homes. They are very efficient and tunable with products such as the coaltrol. However for older homes that are not sealed tight and require constant heat handfired stoves may be the way to go if someone does not want to invest in a stoker boiler. I have run stoker stoves and handfireds in my old house and while the stokers were great easy to run stoves ,they could not cut it on cold nights. Turning the stoker stove up to max setting resulted in unburnt coal being pushed off the grate without being burned. The handfired units I've run (Mark II, Chubby, Gibraltar CFS, Mark I, ) pump out more constant heat and do a better job heating the house on those really cold nights. With a hand fired there is waste when the stove is throwing off more heat than the house needs but I have found there is a more complete burn of the coal on a handfired as compared to stoker stoves.

This is my first year for coal burning. Got a Harman VF3K stoker. Wow I am learning quickly! Kind of like being thrown in the deep end....sink or swim or at least tread water. I think I spend more time with my stoker than most do with their Hand Fired! I tell my wife I going to spend some time with my Dancing Ladies. She is jealous!
Anyhow I am finding that as long as my circuits are calling for heat I am OK but in the maintainance pilot mode I am sendind unburnt coal out the door with my ashes. I asked some of you about this and found that you ran the combustion blower continuously. Boy did that cause me a problem. No unburnt coal but when the coal consumed the flue temp went down ....along with my draft. Not good because I started to get CO in my house. Please EVERYONE make sure you have a CO detector if you burn coal. I am glad I did. Anyhow I am going to get a draft inducer and try again.
I think I will like this when I finally get it dialed in. I called the oil company and told them ...don't call me ; I'll call you.

Merry Christmas to everyone. My daughter is into scrap booking and made me a Christmas card that was a laugh. It had a picture of my Keystoker and she said it was my new love, I don't think the wife is jealous though. Great comments from everyone, on the benefits of a hand fed. Has anyone checked the stack temps of their hand fired when burning hard? My old Buderus would go to maybe 250 but my new Keystoker 90 never gets above 150. I have checked everything with a high end manometer so I know my burn is good.The ash is right too, can I only assume it is more effecient? You all are correct about the radiant heat. The Keystoker warms the room throughout without the benefit of the old warm spot in the corner. The cat no longer sleeps in front of it, instead is upstairs at nite with the rest of us. I will be the first to admit these stokers are different, but I cannot get over the efficiency at the varied burn rates.

IF my stove was in the basement and IF electricity was completely dependable, I might consider a stoker. They clearly have some labor advantages. However with the coal stove in my living room, the electrical supply not completely dependable and the reliance on three motors and several moving parts, I will be sticking with my hopper/hand fed stove. I am willing to trade a little extra labor for simplicity in most aspects of home ownership. For example; I don't have a dishwasher and I have one TV and that is on rabbit ears (no cable).

Iceman wrote:This is my first year for coal burning. Got a Harman VF3K stoker. Wow I am learning quickly! Kind of like being thrown in the deep end....sink or swim or at least tread water. I think I spend more time with my stoker than most do with their Hand Fired! I tell my wife I going to spend some time with my Dancing Ladies. She is jealous!
Anyhow I am finding that as long as my circuits are calling for heat I am OK but in the maintainance pilot mode I am sendind unburnt coal out the door with my ashes. I asked some of you about this and found that you ran the combustion blower continuously. Boy did that cause me a problem. No unburnt coal but when the coal consumed the flue temp went down ....along with my draft. Not good because I started to get CO in my house. Please EVERYONE make sure you have a CO detector if you burn coal. I am glad I did. Anyhow I am going to get a draft inducer and try again.
I think I will like this when I finally get it dialed in. I called the oil company and told them ...don't call me ; I'll call you.

I've had just the opposite result. My draft is not great to begin with. By running the combustion fan it's keep my stack temp up and increased my draft. I think you just aren't quite dialed in yet with feed rate and timers.

I wrote:

Less heat, no hot water circulator & less radient heat. And only one motor running vs. three seperate motors.

Just after I wrote this my latest PP&L electric bill arrived. $129-2009 vs $90-2008 last year durning this same time frame. Last year I used the hand fired with one motor. This Nov & Dec I used used the stoker with three motors. I cannot contribute all of this additional cost to the stoker but certainly some or most.

Do you run your regualr heating systems also along with the stove?

I put a Watt meter on my Keystoker 90. Combustion fan draws 15 watts, 37 watts with feed motor running,130 will all fans running and convection fan on high. I used less than 5Kw in 7 days with it being pretty cold out. 5KW x .15 = 65 cents.

I am a member of the KISS school of doing things. "Keep It Simple Stupid." I think one of the reasons one has a coal stove is to have some sort of independence from the utlitiy companies and be more self reliant. An automatic stoker which has fans, draft inducers, blowers, etc all which depend on another source of power is somewhat of an antithesis to the idea of self reliance.

Been there done that for 27 years, with the hand fired Buderus. Getting older need more heat, but respect all of us that still do coal. Any coal burn't is better than no coal burn't at all

as for what 2001Sierra said, I say AMEN!
Gerard