Senate Passes Health Care Bill

Re: Senate Passes Health Care Bill

PostBy: rberq On: Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:57 pm

KLook wrote:Must have found another money tree

The money is already being spent, via private insurance premiums, Medicaid and other government programs for the poor, and out-of-pocket direct expenses by those without insurance. The difference now, we hope, is that if you happen to be in the last category (no insurance) you won't automatically be bankrupted by a serious illness. How many people have worked hard all their lives, saving for retirement, only to lose everything in a few days or weeks following an accident or sickness?
rberq
 
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Re: Senate Passes Health Care Bill

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:19 pm

stockingfull wrote:On healthcare reform, the GOP bet the ranch that, if they refused to participate, the Dems could never put a package together to get the 60 votes they'd need for cloture in the Senate. They nearly succeeded, but the cost of their gamble was loss of all control over the process.

Now the law will be there as a platform which can be amended when needed. Call it a Trojan Horse if you like, but it will operate more like a trigger: if the insurance companies continue to jack rates through the roof, you'll see their antitrust exemption go away, and/or a public option established and/or Medicare expanded to compete with them.



Why should the right participate in legislation that they don't believe in? They were right to oppose it all. The system wasn't broken. Negotiating would be approval of the basic idea--socialized medicine.

Obviously this is about socialism versus capitalism. Republicans stuck to their principles. Unknown to much of the public, many Dems are also unwilling to be socialists. Dems fought so much internally that they have a whopper of a bill that accomplishes NONE of their objectives. It will tax the system for 5 years before providing any benefits.

It's the dems who are dead men walking.

BTW, The insurance industry is highly competitive and on average puts far less to the bottom line than most industries. The anti-trust exemption is an irrelevent talking point of the left. The exemption merely enables states to regulate that industry rather than the feds and it enables the exchange of loss data without violating the collusion provisions of the Sherman Anti-trust Act. The free flow of accurate data is essential to keeping premiums low in the insurance industry. It actually aids competition.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/02 ... i-hiltzik2

The entire democrat argument about greedy insurance companies is a big fat LIE. Why would Republicans want to associate with such liars?
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Re: Senate Passes Health Care Bill

PostBy: KLook On: Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:31 pm

Do you believe that???? How is it my responsibility to ensure health care for my lazy, non-working countrymen? And why would they go to work if guys like you are going to give them a living. This will quickly become a debate about what a "Great Society" must do for its citizens. Damn the cost in money and damn the cost to the work ethics of the people. Lets put it this way. I am out here in the real world, I had to reduce my labor rate to ensure I get some work. Now if I don't get insurance at a cost to me, I will be fined by the IRS. If you increase my costs, how do I pay for it on reduced wages? What goes out the window? Food, no problem go on foodstamps. Heat, no problem, get subsidized heating. Take your pick, but it will increase costs to non union americans. But that is what socialist are all about isn't it? Everyone joins the group or else. When are the brownshirts coming out?

Kevin (and Merry Christmas) :)
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Re: Senate Passes Health Care Bill

PostBy: KLook On: Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:34 pm

Sorry, I should have quoted. My reply was to rberq. I agree with mikeandgerry as usual.
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Re: Senate Passes Health Care Bill

PostBy: rberq On: Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:17 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:... The insurance industry is highly competitive ...

Maybe where you live, it is. Where I live, I can get private health insurance from exactly one company.

mikeandgerry wrote:The entire democrat argument about greedy insurance companies is a big fat LIE.

Depending whose numbers you believe, Medicare administrative costs are 2 percent vs. for-profit costs of 20 percent; or 8 percent vs. 16 percent. Either way that's a huge chunk of private insurance spending that buys country club memberships and corporate jets and junkets, instead of buying health services. You can call that greed, or call it charging whatever the market will bear, or call it being responsible to the stockholders. But no matter what you call it, it is often at odds with the best interests of the public.

We left the banks alone to pursue their corporate interests, and it got us an international financial crisis and worldwide recession / depression. We left the insurance companies alone to pursue their corporate interests, and it got us a no-mans-land of insecurity unparalleled among "advanced" democracies. There are areas where the free market works wonderfully well, and areas where the free market is simply a framework for victimizing the public. Health insurance, unfortunately, has become the latter, and as with the banks there seems to be no alternative to government intervention.
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Re: Senate Passes Health Care Bill

PostBy: franco b On: Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:57 pm

rberq wrote:We left the banks alone to pursue their corporate interests, and it got us an international financial crisis and worldwide recession / depression. We left the insurance companies alone to pursue their corporate interests, and it got us a no-mans-land of insecurity unparalleled among "advanced" democracies. There are areas where the free market works wonderfully well, and areas where the free market is simply a framework for victimizing the public. Health insurance, unfortunately, has become the latter, and as with the banks there seems to be no alternative to government intervention.


How do you think we got into this mess if not for government intervention? Where did Freddy Mac and Fanny MAE come from? Who pressured banks to make these idiot loans and then gave them the money at next to no interest? Do you believe That Greenspan and Bernanke had no idea what was going on? Are they that stupid or is there another reason? Who prohibits insurance companys from selling health care across state lines? Big business in bed with a corrupt Congress. The only thing Klook had wrong is he should have said black shirts instead of brown because the road we are going down is that of Fascist Italy.
franco b
 
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Re: Senate Passes Health Care Bill

PostBy: rberq On: Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:33 pm

franco b wrote:Who prohibits insurance companys from selling health care across state lines?

They are not prohibited. Aetna, for example, sells in many states, including my own. The individual states regulate policies sold in their own states. The feds could potentially force states to allow standardized policies, under the commerce clause of the constitution. However, this would be seen as an infringement on states' rights, just as when the feds set environmental rules that are stricter or laxer than state rules.

How do you feel about that? Should the feds overrule the states, or should we support states' rights that currently have the final say on cross-selling?

Regardless which side you come down on, the question is a red herring. Insurance company abuses come from a lack of effective regulation, not because of who does the regulating.
rberq
 
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Re: Senate Passes Health Care Bill

PostBy: Richard S. On: Fri Dec 25, 2009 12:07 pm

The Wall Street people know what this bill does.

Healthcare shares rise as reform bill progresses


BOSTON (Reuters) - Healthcare shares rose on Monday as a bill to reform healthcare passed the first critical test in the Senate, without many of the provisions, such as a government-run health insurance option, that investors most feared would hurt profits.
Richard S.
 
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Re: Senate Passes Health Care Bill

PostBy: ken On: Fri Dec 25, 2009 1:32 pm

ken
 
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Re: Senate Passes Health Care Bill

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:25 pm

It's health insurance, not health care. If the pass it, our health care will become a utility.
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Re: Senate Passes Health Care Bill

PostBy: stockingfull On: Fri Dec 25, 2009 7:22 pm

coaledsweat wrote:
It's health insurance, not health care. If the pass it, our health care will become a utility.


Exactly. One way or the other, the insurers will be reined in. They either will start providing more healthcare for the premium dollar, or one or more of the following things will happen to them:
1) Their anti-trust exemption will vanish;
2) Medicare will be expanded;
3) The public option will be established.
Their stocks got a reprieve because they got a reprieve. On the one hand, they're getting a whole lot of mandated new customers and a ton of new money. On the other hand, they're going to be under the microscope now and, if they don't provide "value," they'll be exposed and there won't be any sympathy for them in Congress or anyplace else when it comes time to amend the law.

Plus, they're the ones who have to deal with the "death panel" issue now. The public's gonna get a real quick lesson in YGWYPF ("you get what you pay for"). Want cheap premiums? You don't get big benefits. Want big benefits? You don't get cheap premiums (and your insurer may have to pay tax on some of them).
stockingfull
 
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Re: Senate Passes Health Care Bill

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:56 pm

rberq wrote:How do you feel about that? Should the feds overrule the states, or should we support states' rights that currently have the final say on cross-selling?


Sorry, I didn't know state government was not government intervention. Smitty will be glad to hear that.
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Re: Senate Passes Health Care Bill

PostBy: rberq On: Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:47 am

franco b wrote:
rberq wrote:How do you feel about that? Should the feds overrule the states, or should we support states' rights that currently have the final say on cross-selling?


Sorry, I didn't know state government was not government intervention ....

You are (intentionally?) missing the point. You said that Congress -- the federal government -- prevents the sale of health insurance across state lines, and that is incorrect. The states themselves regulate insurance -- auto insurance, homeowner's insurance, health insurance. The regulation covers policy forms and company stability, and generally has nothing to do with where the insurance company is based.

So who SHOULD regulate health insurance?
(1) The states, like they do now?
(2) The feds, by overruling the states?
(3) Nobody -- let the fine print prevail?
rberq
 
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Re: Senate Passes Health Care Bill

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:51 am

ken wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fxxgtcKRto


"Long legged Mac Daddy!" :lol:
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