So, what exactly are the objections to galv. flu pipe?

Re: So, what exactly are the objections to galv. flu pipe?

PostBy: Dennis On: Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:28 pm

Having all those 90's and short runs, just make sure they are cleaned often while burning bit. coal.Something you probally allready know,if not something to keep an eye on.
Dennis
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: AHS/WOC55-multi-fuel/wood,oil,coal
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/stove size

Re: So, what exactly are the objections to galv. flu pipe?

PostBy: lumpocoal On: Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:31 pm

oh most deffinatly, Im interested in seeing if it builds up as fast as it did with that obstruction I had, I dont think it will though. where the pipe is connected to chimney is 4 foot off the ground and I have a clean out at the bottom so it has a 4 foot build up limit I just hope the ash gets dragged up with the draft to this point at least now
lumpocoal
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Englander

Re: So, what exactly are the objections to galv. flu pipe?

PostBy: GRATE GUY On: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:23 am

In my 30 years of installing boilers and furnaces galvanized pipe has always been the rule rather than the exception. With all the soft coal appliances in our area, 9'' flue pipe is the standard size for 99% of the residential coal furnaces and boilers. 24ga. has always been the ga. for "smoke" as opposed to 30ga. for "heat". Painted black is only available in a limited range of sizes so that limits its range of uses. I have seen pipe up to 18'' diameter on large coal boilers that was galvanized. We have a # 4 Redflash boiler that has an 18'' dia. flue that we made from 16ga. black iron, it originally had galvanized on it. As far as out-gassing I would think painted pipe would have some pretty serious V.O.C.s of its own to be contended with. As far as longevity of flue pipe the old-timer that taught me suggested to customers that at the end of heating season that they put a drag light with a 100 watt bulb in the furnace or boiler for the summer as this would create enough heat to keep any moisture away. This would in turn add to the life of both the appliance and flue pipe.
GRATE GUY
 
Stove/Furnace Make: #4 Redflash


Re: So, what exactly are the objections to galv. flu pipe?

PostBy: Yanche On: Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:48 pm

Using galvanized flue pipe in a coal fired appliance is specifically prohibited in the building/fire code. Section 12.4.1.2 of NFPA 211 2010 Edition states:

"Galvanized steel pipe shall not be used for solid fuel burning appliances"

Don't believe me? Here's an image of that section of the code:

Stopepipe_Material.jpg
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Don't think the code applies to you? Well you are wrong. All places in the continental US have adopted building codes and those codes all reference the NFPA codes and incorporate them as part of their building code. Think living in a rural out of town location excludes you? State codes apply everywhere, except where some other government having jurisdiction, usually a large city, writes their own code.

Bottom line using galvanized is against the code, has been for quite some time. Yes, lots of homeowners and even contractors use galvanized but it's still against the code.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: So, what exactly are the objections to galv. flu pipe?

PostBy: Berlin On: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:21 pm

... and yanche, the code was written once again with the chimney fire burn-through danger of wood in mind, thus heavier gauge black pipe. If someone wants to follow code that's great, but understanding what's safe and unsafe is important. Outside of a chimney fire with thinner (30guage for example) galvanized connecting pipe creates no hazard. The "zinc fume" potential of galv. pipe is really a non issue as far as safety or health is concerned.

A substantial amount of NFPA 211 is either nonsense, unnecessary, or to a particular industry's financial benefit; when that stops being the case, i'll pay them more attention. It has gotten worse over time. (this is not unique to nfpa among codes in this country)
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: So, what exactly are the objections to galv. flu pipe?

PostBy: Yanche On: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:45 pm

Berlin wrote:... and yanche, the code was written once again with the chimney fire burn-through danger of wood in mind, thus heavier gauge black pipe. If someone wants to follow code that's great, but understanding what's safe and unsafe is important. Outside of a chimney fire with thinner (30guage for example) galvanized connecting pipe creates no hazard. The "zinc fume" potential of galv. pipe is really a non issue as far as safety or health is concerned.

A substantial amount of NFPA 211 is either nonsense, unnecessary, or to a particular industry's financial benefit; when that stops being the case, i'll pay them more attention. It has gotten worse over time. (this is not unique to nfpa among codes in this country)

I wholeheartedly agree. I was just trying to point out what the code says and that it applies to all of us. How comfortable you are in not complying is dependent on your understanding of details. Certainly this forum helps everyone with a better understanding. It's especially interesting to read the various suggestions for amending the code and then look to see who the requester works for. Often the change would be in the best interest of his company.

The self interests of the code authoring officials is no different than of a lobbyist in Congress.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: So, what exactly are the objections to galv. flu pipe?

PostBy: Berlin On: Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:10 pm

Yanche wrote:I wholeheartedly agree. I was just trying to point out what the code says and that it applies to all of us. How comfortable you are in not complying is dependent on your understanding of details. Certainly this forum helps everyone with a better understanding. It's especially interesting to read the various suggestions for amending the code and then look to see who the requester works for. Often the change would be in the best interest of his company.

The self interests of the code authoring officials is no different than of a lobbyist in Congress.



Very well said, our thoughts are the same. Taking the time to post the actual language of the code is very beneficial to those on the forum who might need to know for an approved installation; I was not criticizing, rather, adding to.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: So, what exactly are the objections to galv. flu pipe?

PostBy: gaw On: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:00 am

I have heard that Pennsylvania has not adopted NFPA 211 in its statewide building code. Some local governments have, possibly in whole or in part. I can’t find anything online to prove or disprove this statement. Anyone know what's what?
gaw
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice from Schuylkill County

Re: So, what exactly are the objections to galv. flu pipe?

PostBy: Yanche On: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:58 am

gaw wrote:I have heard that Pennsylvania has not adopted NFPA 211 in its statewide building code. Some local governments have, possibly in whole or in part. I can’t find anything online to prove or disprove this statement. Anyone know what's what?

GAW here's your answer:

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/se ... des/553803

This says, "International Fire Code 2009

Adopted only to the extent referenced in the International Building Code 2009."

Then ...

International Building Code 2009 in Chapter 35, i.e. the referenced other codes available here:


http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/ibc/2009/icod_ibc_2009_35.htm
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


Scroll down to NFPA 211-06, it says:

"211-06 Chimneys, Fireplaces, Vents and Solid Fuel-burning Appliances 2112.5"

So NFPA 211 is referenced 2006 version


You can view NFPA 211 here:

http://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards ... tionID=121

You need to create a free account. Then you will be able to see one page of the code at at time. Be sure to select 2006 version. Can't print but you can do a screen save. When you create the account lie about yourself or you will be getting a lot of junk US mail. Don't ask how I know this.

Now the difficult part. For PA only, it gives a number "2112.5" (see above) I don't know what that means. I'm clueless. There isn't a section with that number.

BTY, for this effort you now owe me a beer. :-)
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: So, what exactly are the objections to galv. flu pipe?

PostBy: gaw On: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:23 am

After going through all that muck I guess the least I can do is buy you a beer. :cheers:
gaw
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice from Schuylkill County

Re: So, what exactly are the objections to galv. flu pipe?

PostBy: whistlenut On: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:10 am

I can sure agree with the code and I'm seeing galvie all the time and have for 50 years. The folks who do it by the book always install black. Wood stoves will toast that pipe and of-gas the first fire. Never seen it on an oil or gas appliance, but once you get a dose, you will not forget it. You'll never get a stoker hot enough to cause a problem , but a hand fed will sure liberate the galv. Know any welders that weld it? Pipe . I mean, not stove pipe......ask anyone of them. Here is a news flash also: MOST reputable stove shops have the RIGHT pipe and fittings and the price will be fair. The big box stores have not a clue about what should or should not be used......."Welcome to The Deer In The Headlights Superstore" 3 million items on our sku inventory, and not one person with a lucid thought to guide you..... ;) ;) ;) :shock: :roll:
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB