Is there a Civil War coming to America?

Re: Is there a Civil War coming to America?

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:09 am

Unfortunately....I see the same as you, but not just now, but over the past 10 years....we all have common concerns...but I think it's the "how to fix it" that has everyone up in arms...many "philosophies" on doing so, is what is dividing this country. I see a conundrum in the fact that we as a country can not come to broader ideology that can get us where we need to be instead of getting caught up on many of the miniscule points that set us apart.
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Re: Is there a Civil War coming to America?

PostBy: KLook On: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:17 am

It was no different when the country was formed. The way we went and the freedom and success we enjoyed were not accidental, but will we go back or go FORWARD. We are back to freedom and capitalism or forward to Socialism. Make a choice and tune out the chatter to confuse you.

Kevin
KLook
 
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Re: Is there a Civil War coming to America?

PostBy: Rwalker On: Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:57 am

Everyone has a different definition of forward.

As I asked before, if you walk to the edge of a cliff do you take a step forward, or turn around and take a step forward? Which way is progress?

IMO, we need to go back. Back to hard work, living off the land, and taking care of our neighbors. Hand outs enable the monster that is growing like a weed right now. Stepping off the cliff is not an option, forward or not.
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Re: Is there a Civil War coming to America?

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:04 am

Rwalker wrote:Everyone has a different definition of forward.

As I asked before, if you walk to the edge of a cliff do you take a step forward, or turn around and take a step forward? Which way is progress?

IMO, we need to go back. Back to hard work, living off the land, and taking care of our neighbors. Hand outs enable the monster that is growing like a weed right now. Stepping off the cliff is not an option, forward or not.


:D
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Re: Is there a Civil War coming to America?

PostBy: Davian On: Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:00 pm

Rwalker wrote:Everyone has a different definition of forward.

As I asked before, if you walk to the edge of a cliff do you take a step forward, or turn around and take a step forward? Which way is progress?

IMO, we need to go back. Back to hard work, living off the land, and taking care of our neighbors. Hand outs enable the monster that is growing like a weed right now. Stepping off the cliff is not an option, forward or not.


Historically, do you know why SS and other entitlements started aside from the desire to give people a chance? The government and people in charge looked at what was going on around the world in other countries during that period (end of WWI and then the Depression) and realized that revolutions were very bad things. A social safety net is a method used to tamp down on that type of unrest and it has succeeded quite well in doing so. Starving, desperate people with no hope at a better life tend to not go quietly away. There were a bunch of huge warning signs of that type of unrest in the first few years of the Depression (The Bonus Army protest comes to mind)

Thus, we have a safety net in place now.
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Re: Is there a Civil War coming to America?

PostBy: Rwalker On: Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:24 pm

No, we used to have a safety net. Those are now considered "career goals".

Big difference between helping those who are down and need it, those whose jobs have been taken, those who have worked hard and are in a bind. Th difference is there are those who are brought up to make that their life goal: spit out kids, live well off the tax payers.

That isn't a "safety net" at all.
Rwalker
 
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Re: Is there a Civil War coming to America?

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:33 pm

Back before SS wages were low & people barely got by there was very little for the average man to save. As always raising a family took most of the paychecks & the mother was just that a stat at home mother, very few women worked most men worked until they no longer could or died, there were no 401s or for that matter pensions. The problem then as now if people have to work into their later years there are fewer jobs opening up so SS gave people at least enough to be less of a burden on family since most families were larger & many lived together or close by. I look for sooner rather than later if you have been lucky enough to be able to provide a good retirement income for yourself you will probably have your SS reduced according to income.
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Re: Is there a Civil War coming to America?

PostBy: Davian On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:00 am

Rwalker wrote:No, we used to have a safety net. Those are now considered "career goals".

Big difference between helping those who are down and need it, those whose jobs have been taken, those who have worked hard and are in a bind. Th difference is there are those who are brought up to make that their life goal: spit out kids, live well off the tax payers.

That isn't a "safety net" at all.


You might want to actually go look at some statistics on welfare instead of spouting off Foxnews talking points...
Davian
 
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Re: Is there a Civil War coming to America?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:19 am

Speaking of spouting ;) Why don't you post some links--AND what makes you think they are more reliable then your so called FOX talking points--give ya something to do :)
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Re: Is there a Civil War coming to America?

PostBy: Davian On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:20 am

freetown fred wrote:Speaking of spouting ;) Why don't you post some links--AND what makes you think they are more reliable then your so called FOX talking points--give ya something to do :)


Nah, I'm good.
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Re: Is there a Civil War coming to America?

PostBy: pvolcko On: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:15 pm

Ok, then let me help:

http://reason.com/blog/2012/11/21/why-a ... ericans-on

http://www.cato.org/blog/food-stamps-gr ... isan-roots

There is a pox on both houses when it comes to this stuff. Democrats like to take credit for it and make it socially acceptable, while Republicans more often than not shamefully overlook their own part in expanding these programs. Interestingly, in the case of food stamps the program expansions come as part of "farm" bills, which is another pox on both houses: subsidy for agribusiness (both direct and through ethanol mandates and subsidy).
pvolcko
 

Re: Is there a Civil War coming to America?

PostBy: Rwalker On: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:11 am

You might want to actually go look at some statistics on welfare instead of spouting off Foxnews talking points...


Not so much a fan of Fox news or CNN. As a matter of fact, if it wasnt for Discovery, Animal Planet, FX, Nat Geo, and my football stations, I woudln't have much use for the TV at all.

I get my facts from opening my eyes and seeing things every single day. Every day I have to go into town, every time I go to work. I get to hear it and see it first hand. I have heard people say they are trying to have another child to increase the help they get from the government. I have seen the flood of people at Wal-mart on food stamp day. I have seen the lady in line pay for her food with food stamps while talking on her Iphone. I have seen the lady with 10 kids from 8 different dudes living in a free row house getting free heat and free food. I have heard the incarcerated state they like coming back to jail in the winter because they have 3 hots and a bed, and best of all free heat.

The system is and has been broken. It needs to be fixed. Simple things could fix it: drug tests, job training, and sterilization. Career goals should not be to spit out babies and live off the system. We have allowed this to go on for far too long. You want some actual links??? OK:
http://www.pawic.com/eligibility.html
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


Really? I am a family of 6 and I have no problem feeding my kids, clothing them, or putting a roof over their head. I also feed my hobbies. And my prep storage. And I do not make 6 figures. If you are a family of 6 and you can't survive on $57,000 a year, there is a SERIOUS issue in the way you live.

It needs to come back to hard work. Nothing like hearing people complain about the cost of fuel oil to heat their house, and when I suggest saving that money and installing a wood or coal burner, I get: But that would require me having to work to get my heat! People dont want to cut and split wood, or move coal. Seriously? Nah, instead they live high on the hog and get heat assistance. http://www.dpw.state.pa.us/foradults/he ... /index.htm

So they get help to heat their house and watch TV on a 60" flat screen or drive a new F-150... :roll:
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Re: Is there a Civil War coming to America?

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:55 am

Rwalker wrote:
You might want to actually go look at some statistics on welfare instead of spouting off Foxnews talking points...


Not so much a fan of Fox news or CNN. As a matter of fact, if it wasnt for Discovery, Animal Planet, FX, Nat Geo, and my football stations, I woudln't have much use for the TV at all.




I got rid of the satellite over a year ago. I get 12 channels free with a cheap antenna HD even, and that is plenty. I do miss some of the shows on the history channel but I can usually get everything I want to see on the internet. My wife said she thought it would bother her more but she has said she doesn't miss it at all. That money and a few other things I cut out, including smoking goes into a savings account. That was how I bought my AR and my wife is getting her new couch in the living room. It adds up.
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Re: Is there a Civil War coming to America?

PostBy: samhill On: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:59 am

I hear what your saying RW, back a few years ago it always amazed me when I drove by the projects & saw all the curtains blowing from open windowstats, at first I thought just maybe it was a central heating system set too high but found out later that each had their own furnace & AC & are just too lazy & ignorant to adjust the thermostat, most likely put the big screen TV in front of it.
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Re: Is there a Civil War coming to America?

PostBy: KLook On: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:01 am

If you are a family of 6 and you can't survive on $57,000 a year, there is a SERIOUS issue in the way you live.


I agree with you in principle, however consider my sons.
Twin sons, one wife each ;) 2 children each, same age within few weeks, girls.
Same education right through college, same degrees, same college loans, same pay checks, different states of residence
One(tenn) bought a house (entry level moderate) the other rents mine in Maine.(lower then market rent)
The one in Maine is running my coal boiler but the expense of electricity and heating cost equal him out with the cheaper cost of living here and this sons higher house payment.
Tenn son has stay at home mom after first child, Maine son has working wife. Day care cost all her paycheck now after 2nd child.
They both have one new vehicle, pretty nice, not luxury models. The one in Maine has a decent used SUV for the wife. She is still working so they need 2 vehicles.
Now, both do NOTHING like I did. NO sports, no hobbies, no hunting, no 4 wheelers, no motorcycles...you get the picture.
Both quit drinking beer during the week to save money. Both non smokers.
They both track their income and expenses with Excel spreadsheets, :shock: Believe me, they got that from their accountant mother.
At $65,000 approx. a year, they are struggling. Compared to guys I see that I know don't make what they do, and are riding around with new toys on the backs of their trucks and hunting and fishing etc, something is wrong. (welfare) I am at a loss as to where the money goes, it is just the cost of living these days, and the college loans right now, they both do fund their retirement accounts.
My point is, what we consider middle class is sliding backwards, we are losing ground and fast. I remember my brother getting his first job teaching school back in the mid seventies. His salary was just over $10,000 a year and he was so happy he said he'd work the rest of his life for that much money/year! :shock:
The new things being brought in will only hurt my sons. It is degrading the standard of their living to give to less fortunate or lazy people. Pure socialism any way you cut it. They have healthcare, Obamacare will just be another tax on them to subsidize the rest. They can only hope to move up and make more then the gov. is stealing at this time.

I would NOT take $57000 dollars a year and 6 kids on a bet. No frigging way. Not here, not in Maine.

Kevin
KLook
 
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