Is there a Civil War coming to America?

Re: Is there a Civil War coming to America?

PostBy: Rwalker On: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:28 am

6 kids? No way, 6 total people, absolutely.

I work, the wife stays at home. Once they are all in school, the wife will go to work. Isnt worth it now, she would work for day care.

I have the hobbies, love to fish, have a used boat, 2 motorcycles, and love my guns. But I work my ass off and put my life on the line every day to do these things. And, I instill hard work and discipline into my kids so they know, if they want to live a certain lifestyle they are going to have to work their tails off.

All depends on HOW you live. If you were willing to live in a 1 room cabin in the woods, work the land, kll your meat, etc. you could do it on barely any money. We, as in Americans as a whole, dont want to live like that. We are spoiled, hell I admit it, we ARE spoiled, but my plan is to go off the grid once the kids are grown. To take my ball and go home, so to speak, and live the way we are supposed to live.

Growing up, both my parents worked. Both were teachers. We also had a farm with beef cows. We had 2 huge gardens, and across the creek we planted a huge field of potatoes. We burned wood for heat, and didnt have air conditioning. We hunted every year and always got 4-5 deer. I never remember struggling for food, or not having things we wanted as kids.

A family of 6 should be able to survive on $57,000 anywhere, except the concrete jungle. We have to make sacrifices. Could I make more money if we moved to the city? Sure. But I would live worse. I chose the sticks.
Rwalker
 
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Re: Is there a Civil War coming to America?

PostBy: KLook On: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:54 am

Sorry, yes that would be 4 kids. And i grew up in the sticks where many people still had outhouses then. Did all the things you mention. My father made next to nothing and worked constantly, Mom stayed home with 5 kids until we were gone and then went to work. As if she wasn't working with 5 kids.
My point was the standard of living has degraded significantly since those days. My sons are successful by any standard, but they struggle more then we did, with 2 kids not 5!
There are other differences, cloth instead of disposable diapers, no washer and dryer, (mother had the old Maytag tub type with ringer), no dishwasher, until the late 60's no central heat other then wood, hot water came off a water jacket around the kitchen stove, ran year round. One old beater of a vehicle, usually hand me down from his brothers who left the area and were "better" off. But pined for the days they could come back) ;)
Why go borrow money, get a good education like your mother/father taught you, and have a lower standard of living while others are handed everything on a silver platter because they are apparently "poor". I know what poor is, and the welfare dregs in Eastern Maine are a lot less poor then we were 40+ years ago. But we were happy and didn't know we were poor and all went on to do well and be penalized for it. Today they are told they are poor and told to stay that way by giving them all they need. That keeps the numbers up for the gov. workers to justify their jobs.

Kevin
KLook
 
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Re: Is there a Civil War coming to America?

PostBy: theo On: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:08 pm

Very Well Said KLook !! :up:
theo
 
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Re: Is there a Civil War coming to America?

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:34 pm

Great posts Rwalker and Klook.
Flyer5
 
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Re: Is there a Civil War coming to America?

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:06 pm

I believe that one of the main contributors to our declining standard of living is the artificially low reporting of the rate of inflation (the rate of the debasement of the dollar). Corporations limit their raises accordingly, and Social Security is indexed to this as well. The government and the corporations must love it, as they can tell you that they are giving you a better raise than inflation would otherwise justify. Of course if inflation is averaging about 7-8% year after year in real terms, but it is being reported as 1.5-2.5% by the government, and you are getting 3% raises, then it doesn't take long for the standard of living to precipitously decline.

This is the only engine for standard of living decline that I can think of.
lsayre
 
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Re: Is there a Civil War coming to America?

PostBy: Davian On: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:19 pm

Rwalker wrote:
Really? I am a family of 6 and I have no problem feeding my kids, clothing them, or putting a roof over their head. I also feed my hobbies. And my prep storage. And I do not make 6 figures. If you are a family of 6 and you can't survive on $57,000 a year, there is a SERIOUS issue in the way you live.

Iroll:


I think that seriously depends on where you live. In some places, $57K is poverty level for a family of 6. In most rural areas? Sure, no problem.
Davian
 
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Re: Is there a Civil War coming to America?

PostBy: Rwalker On: Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:17 pm

I think that seriously depends on where you live. In some places, $57K is poverty level for a family of 6. In most rural areas? Sure, no problem.


Which is exactly what I said in my posts. You live where you chose to live, how you chose to live. No one forces anyone to live in NYC or Chicago, or Detroit, or LA. That is a personal choice. Most people chose the big city because that is where the money is too be made, but then they live worse off then someone in the country making half of what they are because they moved to the big city. Makes no sense to me, but that is why we have personal freedoms to work and live where ever we want.

The house I bought 3 years ago would have cost 3/4 of a million in the city. I paid a little over 6 figures for it.

If you think it can't be done, do some research on Richard Proenneke. http://www.dickproenneke.com/

He gave it all up to live in a hand built cabin in the Alaskan wild. I bet he wasnt too concerned with money. Or cars, TVs, boats, welfare, etc. Not many want to live like this today, too hard, too much work.
Rwalker
 
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Re: Is there a Civil War coming to America?

PostBy: Northern Maine On: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:44 am

KLook wrote:
If you are a family of 6 and you can't survive on $57,000 a year, there is a SERIOUS issue in the way you live.


I agree with you in principle, however consider my sons.
Twin sons, one wife each ;) 2 children each, same age within few weeks, girls.
Same education right through college, same degrees, same college loans, same pay checks, different states of residence
One(tenn) bought a house (entry level moderate) the other rents mine in Maine.(lower then market rent)
The one in Maine is running my coal boiler but the expense of electricity and heating cost equal him out with the cheaper cost of living here and this sons higher house payment.
Tenn son has stay at home mom after first child, Maine son has working wife. Day care cost all her paycheck now after 2nd child.
They both have one new vehicle, pretty nice, not luxury models. The one in Maine has a decent used SUV for the wife. She is still working so they need 2 vehicles.
Now, both do NOTHING like I did. NO sports, no hobbies, no hunting, no 4 wheelers, no motorcycles...you get the picture.
Both quit drinking beer during the week to save money. Both non smokers.
They both track their income and expenses with Excel spreadsheets, :shock: Believe me, they got that from their accountant mother.
At $65,000 approx. a year, they are struggling. Compared to guys I see that I know don't make what they do, and are riding around with new toys on the backs of their trucks and hunting and fishing etc, something is wrong. (welfare) I am at a loss as to where the money goes, it is just the cost of living these days, and the college loans right now, they both do fund their retirement accounts.
My point is, what we consider middle class is sliding backwards, we are losing ground and fast. I remember my brother getting his first job teaching school back in the mid seventies. His salary was just over $10,000 a year and he was so happy he said he'd work the rest of his life for that much money/year! :shock:
The new things being brought in will only hurt my sons. It is degrading the standard of their living to give to less fortunate or lazy people. Pure socialism any way you cut it. They have healthcare, Obamacare will just be another tax on them to subsidize the rest. They can only hope to move up and make more then the gov. is stealing at this time.

I would NOT take $57000 dollars a year and 6 kids on a bet. No frigging way. Not here, not in Maine.

Kevin


Kevin...Well said! With all of the deductions paid in a year...I'm lucky to take home $42,000...that's half of what I make and a real "sham"! :( I don't spend lavishly, I have an affordable home and vehicle and am not going hungry and thankful for it...but trying to get ahead these days is not attainable unless your making triple of what I make! :mad:
Northern Maine
 
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