Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:02 am

titleist1 wrote:hmmm.....i said that last week at a local meeting.....although I think the last part was misquoted slightly......surprised to see it on the web so soon....


:lol:
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Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:12 am

stockingfull wrote:While we're talking about the code language of "states' rights," here's another vintage quotation from an ex-Democrat. Can you guess who it is?

I believe in state's rights; I believe in people doing as much as they can for themselves at the community level and at the private level. And I believe that we've distorted the balance of our government today by giving powers that were never intended in the constitution to that federal establishment. And if I do get the job I'm looking for, I'm going to devote myself to trying to reorder those priorities and to restore to the states and local communities those functions which properly belong there.


Why would I care who it is? It's the right philosophy. It follows directly from the 10th amendment, you know, in the The Bill of Rights amended to the Constitution of the United States of America? Are you not familiar with it?

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


The error of the South wasn't their interpretation of the Tenth, it was their indifference to humanity. It is a problem that still plagues the Democrats: They believe they are righteous and that the end justifies the means. They never see the destruction of human spirit by their hand.
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Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:28 am

stockingfull wrote:So where'd the racists go, Mikey?


It will be a real problem for the Dems when everyone realizes that the racists are gone, won't it Jonny? :alone:

You had better view the Glenn Beck videos.
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Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: coalkirk On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:02 am

stockingfull wrote:I'm not saying every Republican is a racist. I am saying every racist is a Republican.


I've been stewing about this all night and it is just so outrageous and ridiculous that I've decided to start a grass roots campaign to boycott Stockingfull. He only posts in the political section. His coal related posts are VERY rare and without any merit. His political posts are designed to do one thing and that is to incite and stor trouble. Remember his wonderful Sick cheney poll of a week ago where you had three derogatory choices to identify Cheney?

So if he starts a thread IGNORE IT. If he posts in a thread do not respond to it. Eventually, like all trouble makers of his type, if he doesn't get the attention he craves, he will go away. For this to work, you must be disciplined. Oh of course his little band of lib followers will still come out to play with him. But the rest of you that would prefer less s'full must not take the bait. And you know he's a master.

If he should suddenly remember its primarily a coal forum and posts in a coal topic, this does not apply as long as he doesn't start trouble in the coal section.
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Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: KLook On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:16 am

I agree 100% with coalkirk, and I have been trying to do that anyway this winter. I have enjoyed reading the posts of those who combat him as they are much better at it then I. He is what Devil was and more, a human tilt-a whirl causing hate and discontent. I don't want to see him banned because it gives voice to those who holler about censorship or intolerence of others views. He (and Devil) actually have increased my awareness of political history as I started reading more about those subjects. It meerly strengthened my views about the things I already believed in.

Kevin
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Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:51 am

We who burn coal don't live in the South. There was no "gradual" shift; the switch was almost literally thrown from "Dixiecrat" to Republican. It wasn't "seismic," unless by "seismic," we mean "tsunami."

Now, I don't disagree that it's understandable that southerners -- and rural people generally -- naturally would be more aligned with the "less gov't" principles of the GOP than the "community" approach of the Democrats (even though, on a per capita basis, I believe more gov't $$$ are spent on rural citizens than on the welfare state you guys love to decry). But the key point is that this was always true in the South. And there always were deep "cultural" reasons for the political anomaly of the "Dixiecrats" (and one of them was to deprive southern blacks of a political party).

The only reason politicians in the South were Dems up to LBJ's time was because of Lincoln's legacy. The GOP represented the Union, simple as that. And, put just as simply, LBJ's pen overrode that. So the "white" Democratic party in the "deep South" collapsed after LBJ and the previously non-existent GOP filled that vacuum with equal speed. You guys can try all you want to portray it as an economic shift but, in the South, it just won't wash. It was cultural and racial, through and through. LBJ knew it; he said it. It's you guys who don't want to accept it.

By the way, the quote was by none other than Ronnie Ray-guns, who wasn't above throwing out a couple "loaded phrases" during his 1980 campaign while visiting the Neshoba County Fair in good ol' Mississippi. You can read the entire transcript here:

http://neshobademocrat.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=297&ArticleID=15599&TM=60417.67

Now, we can discuss whether or not Reagan was a racist (in addition to being the undisputed Father of the Modern Federal Deficit), but he sure didn't take the opportunity to lecture the people of Mississippi about civil rights, or poll taxes, or any of the other "badges or incidents of slavery" which LBJ recognized when he signed the Civil Rights legislation 15 yrs earlier. But "The Great Communicator" was, above all, a politician; he was running against Georgian Jimmy Carter, and he wanted the, ahem, "conservative" South so badly that he was willing to use "the code" to get it. :roll:

Deal with it, boys. It's a fact.
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Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:08 pm

To Terry and Kevin (and anybody else who feels likewise): Nobody's making you participate -- OR EVEN READ -- this or any other political thread. In fact, I didn't start it -- and I usually don't.

Which is the whole point: What you guys can't stand is the other side of the argument. Plain and simple.

And that, in a nutshell, is the definition of "ignorance."
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Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:18 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:...
You had better view the Glenn Beck videos.

Mike, I'll watch Beck when you watch Schultz, Olbermann and Maddow.

That's what I call "fair and balanced." ;)
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Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:50 pm

The focus on Dixiecrats is a bit much. The party lasted ONE YEAR. It was a failure because it represented only the demented ideas of the ancestors of elitist slave plantation owners and those in that food chain.

For one hundred years before the civil war the slave culture reigned in the south. It was their bread and butter. They fought hard to keep it against the rising tide of opposition. The vestiges of old southern culture remain in certain "good ole boys" in the south and to some degree elsewhere in other "Johnny Rebels". They exist in both parties.

After the breakup of the Dixiecrats in 1948, the Democrats were still solid in the south on segregation when the civil rights act of 1964 was voted upon in Congress. The voting record shows that 16 years later, the Democrats still dominated the south and the sentiments remained throughout the south. It wasn't until the south became industrialized, and television exposed the inequities of segregation, that the issue has subsided. While there may have been a tiny shift of Conservative Democrats to the Republicans over five decades, they found no quarter in the party on the issue of segregation.

From Wikipedia, on the Yeas and Nays of The Civil Rights Act of 1964:

By party and region

Note: "Southern", as used in this section, refers to members of Congress from the eleven states that made up the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. "Northern" refers to members from the other 39 states, regardless of the geographic location of those states.

The original House version:

* Southern Democrats: 7-87 (7%-93%)
* Southern Republicans: 0-10 (0%-100%)

* Northern Democrats: 145-9 (94%-6%)
* Northern Republicans: 138-24 (85%-15%)

The Senate version:

* Southern Democrats: 1-20 (5%-95%) (only Senator Ralph Yarborough of Texas voted in favor)
* Southern Republicans: 0-1 (0%-100%) (this was Senator John Tower of Texas)
* Northern Democrats: 45-1 (98%-2%) (only Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia opposed the measure)
* Northern Republicans: 27-5 (84%-16%) (Senators Barry Goldwater of Arizona, Bourke Hickenlooper of Iowa, Edwin L. Mechem of New Mexico, Milward L. Simpson of Wyoming, and Norris H. Cotton of New Hampshire opposed the measure)


To be sure, racism exists but to a lesser extent than 50 years ago. I credit both parties for the vision to bring this nation to a point where MOST feel the US is not a racist nation.

What are we really fighting about here, Jon?
Last edited by mikeandgerry on Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:56 pm

stockingfull wrote:
mikeandgerry wrote:...
You had better view the Glenn Beck videos.

Mike, I'll watch Beck when you watch Schultz, Olbermann and Maddow.

That's what I call "fair and balanced." ;)


I have watched Olbermann over the years. He went from incisive commentator to visceral political hack, in between he went to sportscasting. He needs to make up his mind.

Click on the vids. Beck doesn't do much of the talking. He had laryngitis.
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Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:11 pm

KLook wrote: He (and Devil) actually have increased my awareness of political history as I started reading more about those subjects. It meerly strengthened my views about the things I already believed in.

Kevin


I thought it was unfortunate that Devil was banned too. Don't boycott Stockingfull. He will help you learn. You cannot defeat an enemy you don't know. You cannot win an argument you don't understand. You will learn more from your detractors than your supporters. As you say, strengthen your views through refinement.
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Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: pvolcko On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:19 pm

stockingfull wrote:By the way, the quote was by none other than Ronnie Ray-guns, who wasn't above throwing out a couple "loaded phrases" during his 1980 campaign while visiting the Neshoba County Fair in good ol' Mississippi. You can read the entire transcript here:

http://neshobademocrat.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=297&ArticleID=15599&TM=60417.67


I read it, some parts twice. Please point out where he betrayed his own racism or was encouraging or accepting of racism in those he was talking to. I didn't see it.

If you're hanging your claim of racism in this case on the reference to "state's rights" then I might suggest that he quite explicitly set out what he considered the proper role of the state's right argument in his discussion before and after he made that direct reference. In no place did he espouse a racist view, encourage our countenance racism on the part of others, or make anything approaching a racially tinged statement. If you choose to project a latent racial motive upon his reference to this foundational principle of our country (a principle still striven for by many today fully absent racist motive or intent), so be it, but I suggest it betrays your own ill will toward Reagan and your own stereotypical view of "The South" rather than any racism or playing to racial politics on the part of Reagan himself.

At least in the case of this speech. If you can point out another that doesn't require a true believer racial grievance decoder ring in order to grok it I'll read it too.
Last edited by pvolcko on Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:21 pm

coalkirk wrote:
I've been stewing about this all night...

His coal related posts are VERY rare and without any merit. His political posts are designed to do one thing and that is to incite and stor trouble. Remember his wonderful Sick cheney poll of a week ago where you had three derogatory choices to identify Cheney?

And you know he's a master.



Don't stew. Be calm and rational. Research your answers. His education and career trained him to be the way he is. It was good training. He challenges us all. If you want to be stronger, do you lift heavier weights or lighter ones?

There is only so much you can say about coal burning, the issues of our times are far more interesting.
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Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: coalkirk On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:38 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:I thought it was unfortunate that Devil was banned too. Don't boycott Stockingfull. He will help you learn. You cannot defeat an enemy you don't know. You cannot win an argument you don't understand. You will learn more from your detractors than your supporters. As you say, strengthen your views through refinement.


Sorry Mike. There is nothing I need to learn from a biggoted lib who says and believes that all racists are republicans and really believes that all republicans are racists. He's just a whining trouble maker. I already know who the enemy is. I didn't just fall off of the turnip truck. And Devil wasn't banned for his views. He was banned for violating forum rules. You do as you please but if you give him and audience, he'll just keep putting on his show.
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Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:44 pm

pvolcko wrote:
I read it, some parts twice. Please point out where he betrayed his own racism or was encouraging or accepting of racism in those he was talking to. I didn't see it.

If you're hanging your claim of racism in this case on the reference to "state's rights" then I might suggest that he quite explicitly set out what he considered the proper role of the state's right argument in his discussion before and after he made that direct reference. In no place did he espouse a racist view, encourage our countenance racism on the part of others, or make anything approaching a racially tinged statement. If you choose to project a latent racial motive upon his reference to this foundational principle of our country (a principle still striven for by many today fully absent racist motive or intent), so be it, but I suggest it betrays your own ill will toward Reagan and your own stereotypical view of "The South" rather than any racism or playing to racial politics on the part of Reagan himself.

At least in the case of this speech. If you can point out another that doesn't require a true believer racial grievance decoder ring in order to grok it I'll read it too.


I read it too and made the same conclusions you did. I also know from previous threads that Jon does indeed harbor resentment to State's righters and erroneously links state's rights to racial issues.

As a historical matter, the confederates used the state's rights perspective as a technical tool to defend slavery. Obviously it overlooked the larger issue of liberty! It has been used by both parties as a political tool. It wasn't until the federal government became more powerful than the states under the 16th and 17th amendments and, the New Deal, that the use of it shifted more to the conservatives.
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