Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:47 pm

coalkirk wrote:
mikeandgerry wrote:I thought it was unfortunate that Devil was banned too. Don't boycott Stockingfull. He will help you learn. You cannot defeat an enemy you don't know. You cannot win an argument you don't understand. You will learn more from your detractors than your supporters. As you say, strengthen your views through refinement.


Sorry Mike. There is nothing I need to learn from a biggoted lib who says and believes that all racists are republicans and really believes that all republicans are racists. He's just a whining trouble maker. I already know who the enemy is. I didn't just fall off of the turnip truck. And Devil wasn't banned for his views. He was banned for violating forum rules. You do as you please but if you give him and audience, he'll just keep putting on his show.


I know who the enemy is too and I didn't suggest that you just fell off the turnip truck. I have learned only from sparing with liberals how to defend against their tyranny. The arguments cannot be won with silence or emotion.
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Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:34 pm

1. On the childish "boycott" idea, I personally don't care whether people jump into these political threads or not. It's completely the option of everybody here to participate to whatever extent they want on the board, whether it's in on-topic or off-. I do the political stuff for exactly the same reasons Mike suggests -- but of course the inverse. And, from the earliest days in this country, robust political debate is one of the central things our legal framework is set up to protect. It's one of the greatest gifts our Constitution gives, for it allows us the freedom to think and to test our ideas.

So I say again, for those who can't take it, don't do it. Nobody's forcing you. But don't expect me to sit quietly by while you throw your wingnut ideas out here as gospel. Don't forget: those things that hurt, instruct.

2. Back to the thread topic, this whole debate began as an attempt to process Harry Reid's remarks. Were they "racist" or not? Ultimately, as we compared the examples people could find, I posited that the GOP is the last major party providing safe haven for racists in this country. I continue to believe that (at enormous tactical cost) LBJ destroyed the "Dixiecrats" (and, Mike, the moniker still stuck to them in the mid-60's) with the Civil Rights legislation and, precisely because of those laws, racists promptly deserted the Democratic party in the South. My thesis is intact. Civil rights activists are overwhelmingly Democrats. Racists are overwhelmingly Republicans.

Remember, I explicitly said that not all Republicans were racists. Many of those who aren't live in the north and west, where the cultural vestiges of the old South are completely irrelevant. And, of course, there are always a few outliers in any party, so Dems aren't completely immune. But the fact is that, structurally, racism in the South moved from the ruins of the Dixiecrats to the GOP very quickly after the Civil Rights laws, and the political parties have been locked in that cultural struggle ever since. There simply is no place in Democratic politics for racism while I would argue that it still is a tacit subtext within the GOP, particularly in the South. It showed itself in 2005 during the immigration debate, where even Bush and McCain couldn't bring the GOP into line, and it shows itself now in the vitriolic hate speech about Obama, the intense heat surrounding which can't be explained simply by "policy differences."

But it's a dangerous course for the GOP. The immigration debacle cost the GOP every Latino group but the Cubans, and they'll remember it for a generation. And young people just aren't a demographic where racism will sell. Until it's exorcised, racism will inexorably shrink the party.

So Republicans better be careful trying to pin racism on the Harry Reids and Joe Bidens of the world. Because there's danger lurking behind that door: the closer one looks at the question, the worse the answer gets for the GOP.
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Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:08 pm

stockingfull wrote:political parties have been locked in that cultural struggle ever since. There simply is no place in Democratic politics for racism while I would argue that it still is a tacit subtext within the GOP, particularly in the South. It showed itself in 2005 during the immigration debate, where even Bush and McCain couldn't bring the GOP into line, and it shows itself now in the vitriolic hate speech about Obama, the intense heat surrounding which can't be explained simply by "policy differences."

But it's a dangerous course for the GOP. The immigration debacle cost the GOP every Latino group but the Cubans, and they'll remember it for a generation. And young people just aren't a demographic where racism will sell. Until it's exorcised, racism will inexorably shrink the party.

So Republicans better be careful trying to pin racism on the Harry Reids and Joe Bidens of the world. Because there's danger lurking behind that door: the closer one looks at the question, the worse the answer gets for the GOP.


The immigration issue is not racial. It is cultural. The left continues to paint all conservatives as racists. The press is complicit. We are not racists. But we do defend western cultural values, our borders and our pocketbooks. That defense is NOT racism. You continuously and purposely confuse the issues for political gain. That is the issue here.

Harry Reid's comments were racial. Barbara Boxer's comments were racial. The "we-they. us-them" mentality is perpetuated every time the subject is broached and the left will continue to broach it for political gain. If the right touches on a racial topic, they are immediately branded as racists by the left for political gain. That is the issue.

Harry Reid is fair game until the left dispenses with the notion that Republicans are racists.
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Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:13 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:Harry Reid is fair game

He is the only game here, let's stick to it.
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Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:15 pm

"Cultural," "racial," whatever... :roll:

I said what needed saying.
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Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: jpete On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:58 pm

stockingfull wrote:"Cultural," "racial," whatever... :roll:

I said what needed saying.


Your opinion?

Smearing everyone that disagrees with you is hardly making a case.
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Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:09 pm

That's where you guys are so wrong.

I'm not smearing those who disagree with me. I'm saying that, since the Civil Rights laws killed the Dixiecrats, the GOP has been the party where the racists lurk. And that means Republicans are gonna get blow-back when they try to pin "racism" on somebody like Reid.

Get rid of the racists. Reject them. Work against them. That's what LBJ had the guts to do in 1964 and 65 and, yes, it cost plenty, as he knew it would. But racists lost their place in the Democratic party then and the charges against Reid and Biden won't stick because they're gone.

They're making the GOP squirm now.
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Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: jpete On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:27 pm

stockingfull wrote:
They're making the GOP squirm now.


How do figure? This thread has gone on longer than the Reid story. And last I checked, the D's were the ones squirming.

They've got the whole government in their hands and can't do a thing with it.

Reid probably won't be around after 2010, Dodd and a few others won't embarrass themselves by even trying.

And Coakley watched a 30 point lead evaporate in a week. There's at least an even chance that a seat held by D's for most of this century will go to an R.

That's an awful lot of "racists" running around.
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Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:57 pm

You still don't get it, obviously.

The Reid story is dead, as I predicted.

The public is pissed off, which has nothing to do with Reid's remarks -- or with racism. Nor have I ever said it did.

There may be other issues worth discussing. This one's done.
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Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: jpete On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:17 pm

The "Great I AM" has spoken! :roll:
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Re: Didn't figure this Reid story would have legs

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:13 am

Now you're getting it. ;)
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