Southerners?

Re: Southerners?

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:23 pm

Most wars are fought over economics. The civil war was certainly fought over the economics of slavery. This is not to say that the morality of the issue didn't enter the minds of both northerners and southerners. The south was agrarian and the north industrial. The supporters of slavery relied on it for their livelihood and they included everyone from plantation owner to shopkeeper to farrier to shipper. I am sure the morality of slavery was questioned by everyone in the supply chain including the plantation owners. But, when your earnings are threatened and the status quo is challenged, there is bound to be dissent, regardless of the moral issues.

Lincoln preferred the idea that the "negro" be free in accordance with our founding principals and in accordance with Nature's. Lincoln was willing to forgo that in order to save the union which was his first duty as president. There were many who believed, and it can be effectively argued, that the slave was economically better off as a slave than as a free man. It could also be argued that the northern factory worker wasn't much better off than a slave. It may be one reason why it was pushed down Lincoln's list of priorities.

As far as today's southerners are concerned, I don't think the civil war or slavery occupies much of the thinking of most of them. I know that northerners don't think about it at all. Yes, there are pockets of hold outs and johnny rebels who feel the south will rise again. (Actually, the south has risen again. It is an industrial success.) Their numbers are tiny.

The problem I see is that there is still a cultural difference between southern blacks and southern whites more so than the difference in the north. There is self imposed segregation by both whites and blacks to some degree in certain areas. The reality of the black man as a citizen of a parallel culture has been a generational sticker (including parts of the north). Only time and cultural integration will eliminate these differences. I am surprised it is taking so long to eliminate.
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Re: Southerners?

PostBy: jpete On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:40 pm

When my aunt and uncle moved down to Pensacola they built a house. My uncle was taking a a lunch break and offered to bring the roofing crew(all black). When he suggested a restaurant, they told him they couldn't go because it was a "white" restaurant. He was stunned.

As near as i can tell, segregation still runs pretty deep down there. My aunt later adopted a couple black kids and she's told me there are towns around there where she doesn't go with the kids because she's afraid she'll get shot at. :shock:
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Re: Southerners?

PostBy: wlape3 On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:59 pm

I'm a southerner by birth and a northerner by upbringing. When I was an infant back in the late 50's segregation was still very much in effect in Florida. My mother told me stories about the weird looks she got when she accidentally took a drink out of the wrong water fountain. I never knew cooties were real :eek2:

When we went back to the old neighborhood ten years later it was like we were extraterrestrials for all the looks we got as we drove through.

One thing I've learned over the years is southerners can be deep. There is an easy gentility on the surface but you can never be quite sure what's underneath. One time I was in VA at a company training session with some coworkers from the south and the after work drinking session devolved into a rant about General Sherman and his behavior in Columbia, SC. There's a lot of wounds that still haven't healed in some hearts.
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Re: Southerners?

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:40 am

wlape3 wrote:I'm a southerner by birth and a northerner by upbringing. When I was an infant back in the late 50's segregation was still very much in effect in Florida. My mother told me stories about the weird looks she got when she accidentally took a drink out of the wrong water fountain. I never knew cooties were real :eek2:

When we went back to the old neighborhood ten years later it was like we were extraterrestrials for all the looks we got as we drove through.

One thing I've learned over the years is southerners can be deep. There is an easy gentility on the surface but you can never be quite sure what's underneath. One time I was in VA at a company training session with some coworkers from the south and the after work drinking session devolved into a rant about General Sherman and his behavior in Columbia, SC. There's a lot of wounds that still haven't healed in some hearts.


Oh yeah, don't even get them started on Sherman! :D

I probably shouldn't admit this, but I dated a girl who was a descendant of him. :D
jpete
 
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Re: Southerners?

PostBy: Paulie On: Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:43 am

War is Hell.
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Re: Southerners?

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:09 pm

And it is worse when you loose.
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Re: Southerners?

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:00 pm

coaledsweat wrote:And it is worse when you loose.


I have often thought that is a part of the southern mentality.

It is a pity. We all won in the long run.
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Re: Southerners?

PostBy: gerard On: Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:00 pm

At the risk of speaking in generalities, I DO think native southerners are more preoccupied by the civil war than northerners. One example - my sister relocated to Atlanta and was being taken around by a local real estate agent. Over the course of the day they looked at many homes. At the end of the day the realtor told my sister she was "really nice for a northener." It was meant to be complimentary. I KNOW a similar thought would never occur in a reverse situation because northerners don't think that much about it.

Also have a friend in the construction business and they got a bid to build a structure in NC. Apparently local workers were unhappy that bid went to outside company. They could not get any local contractors to do any sub work. Brought in entire crews from NY to do the job. (Yep - that sure showed them northerners..........).

Guess all I can say is that if any southerners DO harbor any bad feelings towards those north of the mason dixon line, the converse is certainly not true. I like the south and hope to relocate there some day. My only concern in doing so is I probably won't get to burn coal down there ;)
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Re: Southerners?

PostBy: KLook On: Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:07 pm

My wife and I were looking at land in Tenn. and N. Georgia 2 years back and our realtor of choice was black. When we expressed an interest in certain piece in a certain town, he told us that he would take us and was not supposed to tell us but he would ordinarily not even drive through that town. And it was interesting to say the least. There are still plenty of idiots reliving their "grandpapies" war everyday. What I saw in Texas 30 years ago was a real eye opener for a very rural northern white. I agree with Mike, I don't know why it has taken so long.

Kevin
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Re: Southerners?

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:19 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:It is a pity. We all won in the long run.


I don't believe a strong, authoritarian, central government has been good for anyone.
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Re: Southerners?

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:20 pm

gerard wrote:Guess all I can say is that if any southerners DO harbor any bad feelings towards those north of the mason dixon line, the converse is certainly not true. I like the south and hope to relocate there some day. My only concern in doing so is I probably won't get to burn coal down there ;)


99.9% of Northerners could tell you WHAT it is, much less WHERE.

Most Southerners know EXACTLY where it is. :D
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Re: Southerners

PostBy: bksaun On: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:03 pm

Most Southerners know EXACTLY where it is.



39° 43′ 19.92216″ N
and Boundary Monument #87 is on that parallel, at:

075° 47′ 18.93851″ W.

Guess your right about that! :lol:

Bk
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Re: Southerners?

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:23 pm

gerard wrote:.... At the end of the day the realtor told my sister she was "really nice for a northener." It was meant to be complimentary. .....

I'm not at all surprised by that comment. I live & drive with all kinds of rich, arrogant, pompous, ego-maniacs .... I hate them all! Can't imagine what anyone who hasn't grown up here would think of them -- would be a massive culture-shock for sure. I'm sure they carry the same attitudes with them wherever they travel. When someone is nice to me around here, I always go on high alert & suspect that they are up to no good ... until they prove otherwise -- Not in the town where I now live, but anywhere near the cities.
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Re: Southerners?

PostBy: valley trash On: Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:54 am

By trying to be so different and cultural, most Negroes ive ever met have defeated their initial , King, goals. Time and time again they make sure they aren't the norm and are different. Better or good at something is all that you hear because you would be crucified if you said blacks couldn't do some thing just like they do whites. Example: White guys cant jump, how much of a double standard is that. Racism has many venues and through history it has been a part of us, not condoned by me in any way, it seems to be a part of human nature. If Negroes truly wanted equality they would strive not to alienate themselves and try and fit in like the rest of the population. On another note, it is sad to see an entire race judged upon the bad seeds of its fruit. It takes all kinds i hear.
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Re: Southerners?

PostBy: SMITTY On: Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:03 am

I hear ya. I'm an equal opportunity hater, as there are dipshits of all races. Back in the day, everyone became AMERICAN ... nowadays, everyone wants to be themselves & gets offended when we celebrate our AMERICAN way of life! We let them in here, then they complain??? Well shame on us. When I was real young, there was an asian family that went to my school. Never thought much about it, because they spoke perfect English, & acted just like any of us. No one ever was prejudiced against them. I think if more people were like them, there wouldn't be any racism. Most of the morons in the cities ruined that one.
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