Amish Exempt from Insurance Mandate

Re: Amish Exempt from Insurance Mandate

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:08 pm

coaledsweat wrote:OK, the Native Americans, Nebraskans, the Amish, Congress and the unions don't have to pay for it it now. By the time they get it passed, the only ones that will be paying for it are the ones that couldn't afford it in the first place. :wacko:



What I was going to say was very similar:

OK, the Native Americans, Nebraskans, the Amish, Congress and the unions don't have to pay for it it now. By the time they get it passed, the only ones that will be paying for it are the Republicans. Go figure.
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Re: Amish Exempt from Insurance Mandate

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:54 pm

If/when that happens, I'm sure you'll remind me to send you guys a Thank You note. :smoke:
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Re: Amish Exempt from Insurance Mandate

PostBy: smokeyCityTeacher On: Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:43 am

SMITTY wrote:Those with the biggest bribes will also be exempt ... :roll:


UNIONS
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Re: Amish Exempt from Insurance Mandate

PostBy: stockingfull On: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:28 pm

smokeyCityTeacher wrote:
SMITTY wrote:Those with the biggest bribes will also be exempt ... :roll:


UNIONS

Teachers' unions?
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Re: Amish Exempt from Insurance Mandate

PostBy: SMITTY On: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:34 pm

ALL UNIONS
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Re: Amish Exempt from Insurance Mandate

PostBy: stockingfull On: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:46 pm

Right. All those unions which established the bottom below which workers' wages can't fall...

... or they'll organize into unions!

Have the unions outlived their fundamental use? Do they complicate the workplace? Those are useful debates to have.

But you guys have no idea how much you owe the unions. You know where you'd be if they hadn't stood up to the rich guys you worship? Lemme give you a hint: in the communist party.
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Re: Amish Exempt from Insurance Mandate

PostBy: smokeyCityTeacher On: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:08 pm

OK - lets qualify it to those auto worker unions which sold their vote to Obama for an exemption from the cadillac insurance excise tax.
Actualy Obama granted it to all collective bargaining units but it was the UAW that made the deal happen.

My Dad was a labor relations manager for PPG for 33 years. He negotiated for management. He was well respected on both sides and at age 62 he retired ASAP because he hated his job. He made the following observations about unions and management.

Management - if left unchecked will make slaves out workers.
Unions - if left unchecked will make slaves out of the company.
Approximately every decade or so the pendulum swings from one pole to the other.
One could replace unions with DEMS/GOP and the analysis would be approx. true.

Right now the pendulum is still somewhat in the UAWs favor.
Unfortunately their current position is unsustainable because the companies they depend on are faltering.
The pendulum is swinging away from them.






stockingfull wrote:Right. All those unions which established the bottom below which workers' wages can't fall...

... or they'll organize into unions!

Have the unions outlived their fundamental use? Do they complicate the workplace? Those are useful debates to have.

But you guys have no idea how much you owe the unions. You know where you'd be if they hadn't stood up to the rich guys you worship? Lemme give you a hint: in the communist party.
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Re: Amish Exempt from Insurance Mandate

PostBy: stockingfull On: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:16 pm

smokeyCityTeacher wrote:My Dad was a labor relations manager for PPG for 33 years. He negotiated for management. He was well respected on both sides and at age 62 he retired ASAP because he hated his job. He made the following observations about unions and management.

Management - if left unchecked will make slaves out workers.
Unions - if left unchecked will make slaves out of the company.

Your Dad is right.

Just like the gov't, a balance of power is needed.

I'm no union member or patsy. I was a member (for a token period, long ago) and I've been on the other side in mgmt, dealing with craft lines and the rest.

But it's folly for workers with good-paying jobs not to have the good sense your father has and realize that, whether they're union or not, they owe the unions for establishing the working middle class in America.
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Re: Amish Exempt from Insurance Mandate

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:39 pm

The biggest problem I see with unions now is that (just like the D.C. boys) the people at the contract talks no longer even know or care what the worker is faceing or needs. They just want to keep their jobs so they demand more $ & benefits to quiet the workers because everyone could always use more money. The Co.s can accept or reject offers, if they believe they can afford it. It`s kind of hard to say we can`t afford a dollar for you & then turn around & give themselves billions. Even with the UAW, what power do they have one of the big 3 could strike one plant. Who cares, the rest go on. They only gave so that they could take. You got to give blame to both sides.
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Re: Amish Exempt from Insurance Mandate

PostBy: smokeyCityTeacher On: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:54 pm

stockingfull wrote:
smokeyCityTeacher wrote:My Dad was a labor relations manager for PPG for 33 years. He negotiated for management. He was well respected on both sides and at age 62 he retired ASAP because he hated his job. He made the following observations about unions and management.

Management - if left unchecked will make slaves out workers.
Unions - if left unchecked will make slaves out of the company.

Your Dad is right.

Just like the gov't, a balance of power is needed.

I'm no union member or patsy. I was a member (for a token period, long ago) and I've been on the other side in mgmt, dealing with craft lines and the rest.

But it's folly for workers with good-paying jobs not to have the good sense your father has and realize that, whether they're union or not, they owe the unions for establishing the working middle class in America.



He also once told me that the longer he worked for management - the more he saw the reason unions exist. My grandfather was a coal miner and my great grand father saw firsthand the atrocities committed by Pinkerton agents in Pittsburgh in the 1880's.
If management could be trusted with power there would be no union.
As you have alluded - the breakdown of checks and balances is the root of nearly all evil.
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Re: Amish Exempt from Insurance Mandate

PostBy: SMITTY On: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:32 pm

stockingfull wrote: ......But you guys have no idea how much you owe the unions. You know where you'd be if they hadn't stood up to the rich guys you worship? Lemme give you a hint: in the communist party.
The unions were needed 100 years ago. They forced greedy mill owners to treat their workers like humans, and not slaves (HA! All this info from a dumb Republican red-neck!).

Back then, the democratic party was not trying to bankrupt the country, or pass communist/socialist bills, or hand the keys of the superpower car to 3rd world countries, in the name of an ultra-left-wing environmental agenda. :idea: Times have changed, in case you didn't notice ....
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Re: Amish Exempt from Insurance Mandate

PostBy: stockingfull On: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:42 pm

Actually, had it not been for the Dems and FDR defusing the labor crises in the first half of the 20th Century with the New Deal, there might indeed have been "communist/socialist bills." So you have the "social engineering" of the Democratic party to thank for saving us from a commie revolution.

You might also be interested to know that Republican Teddy Roosevelt was the original "trust-buster." Got him on the outs with the robber barons who controlled the party at that time.

Fun facts, eh?
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Re: Amish Exempt from Insurance Mandate

PostBy: SMITTY On: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:46 pm

You just proved my point: TIMES HAVE CHANGED. In other words: unions had their place many years ago. They have evolved into crooked money machines, much like the federal gov't ....
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Re: Amish Exempt from Insurance Mandate

PostBy: stockingfull On: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:58 pm

As a matter of degree, I don't disagree. But killing the unions only sets the table for future mgmt abuse. See Smoky's posts above.

And you're right, the GOP, once upon a time, was a reasonable alternative party. :D
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