Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:11 am

I suggest the Democrats go ahead with the plan of reconciliation.

Yes, perform the perverted act, shove it in the face of every American.

Do what has never been done before, I double dog dare you :

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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:32 am

Trust-dem??
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: tvb On: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:50 am

Black_And_Blue wrote:I suggest the Democrats go ahead with the plan of reconciliation.

Yes, perform the perverted act, shove it in the face of every American.

Do what has never been done before, I double dog dare you :


Well, except for the three times congress used it under the Bushco presidency to enact tax cuts for rich people. And the time they tried to use it to allow drilling in ANWR but failed.
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:27 pm

tvb wrote:
Black_And_Blue wrote:I suggest the Democrats go ahead with the plan of reconciliation.

Yes, perform the perverted act, shove it in the face of every American.

Do what has never been done before, I double dog dare you :


Well, except for the three times congress used it under the Bushco presidency to enact tax cuts for rich people. And the time they tried to use it to allow drilling in ANWR but failed.


Both are good ideas. What's the problem?
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:36 pm

Black_And_Blue wrote:I suggest the Democrats go ahead with the plan of reconciliation.

Yes, perform the perverted act, shove it in the face of every American.

Do what has never been done before, I double dog dare you :



Wow, I give Chris Matthews credit for being tough. This is more like the OLD Chris Matthews I used to admire. He goes after Grayson on Senate procedure and makes Grayson looks naive.

Grayson may be right however in that if the leadership of the two houses agree to pass a senate version of the bill adjusted (ahem) to meet the needs of whoever the 60th vote is, and appease the naysayers by bringing the price tag down, then through reconciliation, the new resulting law can be funded and tweaked however they like with their comfortable majority.

All Chris Matthews is saying is that they cannot create a Health care program in this procedure but, they can certainly fund one that already exists.
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:04 pm

rberq wrote:On Norway: You asked me to name a country where liberalism worked. I did. Now you are arguing why it SHOULDN'T work. But it does. So forget about your shoulds and should nots. .


Sorry to have been so long to have gotten back with you. I hate it when real live gets in the way of what I really want to do. I went back and looked at what I had written and I never said Norway's socialism works. I said it can’t work over the long haul. It may appear that it’s working at this time, just as our Social Security and Medicare appears to work but it is unsustainable just like Social Security and Medicare. I found it very interesting that I couldn't find one negative report on the government, medical system or educational system on the internet. They may be there but I couldn't find them and since I don't really care, I didn't press the issue. My first thought as to why negative stories don't exist is because the government controls the media. Nay, that couldn't happen, right. I do know that socialism takes the desire to strive and succeed out of any population it's been tired with. Look at France or Great Britain. Individual in those countries strive for mediocrity. I don't know about you but I am not raising my children to be drones. I'm raising them to be CEOs.

rberq wrote:On slavery: It was just a snide remark on my part -- an example of what can happen with unfettered capitalism.



It's unfortunate that the victors, i.e. the north get to write the history from their point of view. If the history of slavery in the United States had been written by impartial historians, they would have reported that by the start of the Civil War, slavery was being phased out as unsustainable. It just didn't make sense economically - it's cheaper to pay someone to do the work then to have to house and feed them. Slavery could not compete with the Industrial Revolution.

rberq wrote:On capitalism: You say the benefits are split among those that produced the product, based on their efforts. That is the theory, but... When Chinese labor built the railroads in this country, were the profits split equitably among those who did the work? No, the profits went largely to those who owned the assets, and many of those assets were outright grants from the government, which wanted railroads to be built. When there is a glut of labor, those who own the capital take advantage of the situation by driving down wages -- look at the situation in this country right now! When there is a dearth of labor, the unions stick it to the corporations. Benefits are split on the basis of who has the power, not who did the work.


Why do you have to dredge up the most horrible instances in an effort to support your point? I think we can all admit that what the Chinese Laborers went through to build the railroads was terrible. We’re they inadequately compensated? No, does that make capitalism wrong. No, it makes those individual who implemented it to be wrong. Modern day capitalists are taking high risks to bring their products to market. Look at the people at Apple. To me that is a shining example of the best of capitalism. Would you even consider paying the fork lift driver the same as the CEO or CFO? No, the CEO took personal risks on future benefits when deciding to further his education and experiences in order to benefit him down the road. Don’t bother telling me that the fork lift driver didn’t have the same availability of schooling to him. In this country, everyone is required to be educated and with a little work you can become a Justice of the Supreme Court or CEO of a Fortune 500 business. Again, I say that isn’t available in any other country.

So… I’m long winded with my feedback but I hope this answers your posting. I would hate to think you thought I was ducking the question. My life got really busy at this point in time so I won’t be continuing on with the conversation. If I didn’t cover something send a PM. Lisa
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: tvb On: Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:54 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:
Both are good ideas. What's the problem?


Kind of how I feel about HCR.

And since it was the 1996 Senate Republican majority that changed the rule to allow reconciliation to be used for non-budget legislation even if it increases the deficit, it makes it an even better route to passage. :D
tvb
 
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: coalkirk On: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:11 pm

Wow! Chris Matthews suddenly remembered he's a journalist and not a democratic cheerleader! If the Dems could pass this with less than 60 votes, it would have already been done. This will go down in history of one of the most bungled messes ever in Congress. Not gonna happen. Here's an interesting little tidbit. Barney Franks 90% dem. district went for Brown. Think the Mass vote wasn't about a rejection of this healthcare bill and Obamas failing to deliver on virtually every promise he made during the election? I've got some beach front property in Kansas i'd like to sell you. :lol: :P
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:13 pm

tvb wrote:
mikeandgerry wrote:
Both are good ideas. What's the problem?


Kind of how I feel about HCR.

And since it was the 1996 Senate Republican majority that changed the rule to allow reconciliation to be used for non-budget legislation even if it increases the deficit, it makes it an even better route to passage. :D


No, reconciliation still applies only to changes in existing law that affects the budget. That is, the program must be in place prior to reconciliation and, they still have to satisfy the Byrd Rule so there will be a sunset provision should they pass some trumped up BS program and then try to fund it through reconciliation. Either way, it will be a clusterf___.
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: rberq On: Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:45 pm

Poconoeagle wrote:mom says "how much you think my blood tests cost last week"? ... 3 small vials for different tests ... eight thousand bucks!!!!!!

It's a crazy game. The lab knows by its agreement with Medicare that only a fraction of that is allowable, and the lab has pre-negotiated contracts with most insurance companies to pay only a fraction. So why the fictional bill? Because if you don't have insurance, they will expect you to pay the whole thing. That is one of the ridiculous distortions built into the present system.
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:24 pm

rberq wrote:
Poconoeagle wrote:mom says "how much you think my blood tests cost last week"? ... 3 small vials for different tests ... eight thousand bucks!!!!!!

It's a crazy game. The lab knows by its agreement with Medicare that only a fraction of that is allowable, and the lab has pre-negotiated contracts with most insurance companies to pay only a fraction. So why the fictional bill? Because if you don't have insurance, they will expect you to pay the whole thing. That is one of the ridiculous distortions built into the present system.


So why doesn't Congress do what Harry Reid threatened and repeal the laws that give health insurance companies a monopoly?

Are they interested in lowering health care costs and increasing access for the public or creating another bloated bureaucracy?
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: rberq On: Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:51 pm

jpete wrote:So why doesn't Congress do what Harry Reid threatened and repeal the laws that give health insurance companies a monopoly? Are they interested in lowering health care costs and increasing access for the public or creating another bloated bureaucracy?


I really wish I knew the answers to your questions. It doesn't seem that it should be so hard. But the healthcare system and insurance system are so convoluted now, and there is SO much money being passed around, that any sensible change is going to cut into somebody's income. You read that the pharmaceutical lobby supports one plan, the AMA supports one plan, and so on. In my mind that should be the kiss of death for any specific plan -- that fact that some big, rich group supports it. And the more of them support it, the worse it probably is.
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:00 pm

The answer to the question is that they don't want to fix anything. They want more control over your life. We're slaves as it it. They are just adding links to the chain.
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