Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:36 am

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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:32 am

samhill wrote:Coalkirk! first off I would like you for allowing me to live in your great country, up until now I was under the impression that it was all of our country but I stand corrected. I was just wondering, being that the Republicans were locked out of the room (I was unaware of that) they were still able to add Republican pork into the bill?


Gee, I'm wondering how I missed this, too. Without rehashing everything, I have to wonder if the left of center folks are still getting their information exclusively from the main stream media. If so they are only getting information that confirms their point of view. Samhill, just to clear up the point, not only were the Republicans locked out of the room, the Democrats leadership changed the locks, too. Do a web search the truth is easy to document. As for "adding Repubilican pork into the bill" I remind everyone that this bill was passed by the senate without 1 Repubilican vote for the positive. Heck, Harry Reid couldn't even get Snowe to look at it twice. There is no way the Republican added anything to the final bill. Lisa
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: Dann757 On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:37 pm

Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. - C.S. Lewis
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:47 pm

stockingfull wrote:How did I miss this party? :doh:

I agree with Teach: enact Congress's coverage for everybody. To hell with what it costs; that was the attitude in the last Administration, whether it was the wars or Part D, and I didn't hear any screaming from the right then.

Nobody on the right's gonna object to that now, right? :roll:


Wrong! Of course you didn't hear any screaming from the right; from what I can see you only listen to or seek out sources that confirm what you want to believe. There were plenty of conservative pundits speaking out against the free spending of the Bush Administration. And no, they weren’t all on Fox. If you cared to seek out the truth you'd discover a majority of conservatives were unhappy at the free spending ways of Bush. I know I was. As for the wars, I'm backing those 100% - in my opinion I'd much rather fight them over there then on Main Street. I think the Christmas Day Bloomer Bomber is clear evidence we are at war. A war we did not ask for I might add. Without a doubt we must be willing to incur the cost to defend our nation. Lisa

Disclaimer: All missed spelled words are due to my fat fingers and a small keyboard. Any misused Homophones are due to my failing to remember another trival fact taught in the failed public schools. Give me a break!
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:56 pm

quote="tvb"]
We will now offer you a simple bill. It works like this...

You ALL get the exact same health care plan and coverage as we do - the very same health plan and level of coverage/subsidization -- as every U.S Senator has right now. "


That was the original plan. It's called the public option and your side (along with Joe Lieberman, representing Aetna and other health insurance companies, along with couple other DINOs with egos bigger than those who elected them) said NO![/quote]

No, that wasn't the original plan. At no point in did the Congress include themselves in the public option health plan. Again, that's easily documented via the internet. Congress has an annoying habit of excluding themselves from laws they would impose on the general population. Really, if you wanted to speak with more credibility you should expand the sources from which you get your news and information. You'd be surprised. There may even be things we'd agree on. Lisa

Disclaimer: Any misspelled words are do solely to my fat fingers on a small keyboard. Give me a break.
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: coalkirk On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:08 pm

Forget it Lisa. I tried suggesting she (or he. It's hard to tell as it appears either two people use this sign on here or it's a woman with a wife. At various times in other threads, the person know as TVB has referred to having a wife and at another time called themselves a girl. Could be both.) read the relevant parts of the healthcare bill. He/she wasn't interested.
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:19 pm

[quote="coalkirk"]There is no passive aggressive. It's active agressive. Let's clear the air on that right now little missy. I despise everything you stand for and believe. I consider your kind is a disease on my country. So no passive. When and if a revolution comes, I'm shooting liberals first. :)

While I would have stated things a little differently, I do agree that liberalism is not a good thing for the country. I would like for one lib to show me one country where liberalism has worked to the benefit of the citizens. You can't; any country that's tried it has had a drastic reduction in their standard of living. I've learned from recent past postings those questions the libs on this forum can't or won't answer they ignore. No, there is only one reason that this country continues to be a beacon of light for every immigrant seeking a better life. Like it or not capitalism works and it provides the standard of living we each enjoy. Yeah, even the libs. Only in this country can a poor boy from a single parent home work hard and gain an education and eventually became a Republican Senator elect from MA. That doesn't happen any where else. If you can prove otherwise, do it. In my opinion the closest person you could come up with is Margret Thatcher in a different time and place; before England adopted socialism. But hey, this is America and everyone has the right to their own views. It doesn't matter if they conflict with mine or not. I spent 16 years defending that right. But don't expect me to sit quietly by and watch the libs set out to destroy everything that makes America great. It's not going to happen, so speak out but be prepared to answer the hard questions if you're going to discuss them. If seeking an honest conversation on the topic at hand is being aggressive, so be it. Lisa
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: lumpocoal On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:04 pm

THATS WHAT IM TALKIN ABOUT!!! 8-) 8-)
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:32 pm

Neither of the bills in Congress are going anywhere but the trash can.
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:32 pm

coaledsweat wrote:Neither of the bills in Congress are going anywhere but the trash can.


Breitbart has a compilation video/audio of all the Democrates stating the bill will be passed rammed through by Easter.

http://www.breitbart.tv/democrats-plan-b-healthcares-easter-resurrection-by-reconciliation/
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: rberq On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:44 pm

lowfog01 wrote:... show me one country where liberalism has worked to the benefit of the citizens ...

Norway. Small, liberal, and one of the richest in the world in per capita income.

lowfog01 wrote:Like it or not capitalism works and it provides the standard of living we each enjoy ...

The U.S. has not been purely capitalist for a VERY long time. I guess you could consider slavery capitalist, since slaves were property used for production. Sadly, we did away with that piece of capitalism. Capitalism as such refers to owning the means of production, and does not define whether a country is socialist or not. Socialism, as the term is used nowadays, refers to the distribution of whatever is produced. "Competition" is what many people really mean when they say "capitalism" -- in your example, the ability of a poor boy to compete and become a Senator. Competition still exists, largely in the small business world, but get much beyond that and you have monopoly and oligopoly. Witness your cable TV company, the oil companies, the big banks, Microsoft, and on and on and on -- their specialty is squashing competition to further enrich themselves. I'm all in favor of strong and fair COMPETITION -- but there's not enough of it around to give it so much credit.

lowfog01 wrote:don't expect me to sit quietly by and watch the libs set out to destroy everything that makes America great
Believe it or not, that's not what "libs" are trying to do. And while we're on the subject, I know there are some here that use the term "libs" just to p*ss people off. Your arguments, Lisa, are generally on a higher plane than that, so I hate to see you adopt the term. Just call us PWDAWYOE -- people who don't agree with you on everything. :)
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: Yanche On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:55 pm

In the many postings on health care there is frequent reference to the health care provided to Congress. The belief seems to be that it's in a league of it's own. But that's not the case, it's the same health care coverage available to any federal government employee or retiree. It's good health care but certainly not free to it's members. It's no where as inexpensive as the heath care benefits some union contracts offer. The plan is managed by OPM, Office of Personnel Management. See: http://www.opm.gov/Insure/ It is run by insurance companies. IT IS NOT GOVERNMENT RUN INSURANCE. OPM's roll is largely administrative, it defines a minimum core benefit and lets insurance companies bid on the contract annually. The different choices one has depends on where you live and how many insurance companies want to do business in that area. You get to chose what company you want. Your premium is different depending on the insurance company and the benefit. Insurers can not deny coverage for pre-existing conditions.

Now for some facts:

Eligibility: It covers Federal employees, retirees and survivors.

Plus there are others as specifies in the Handbook (see: http://www.opm.gov/insure/health/refere ... fehb00.asp)

Out of the Handbook:

Begin Quote
Eligibility for Health Benefits

* Cooperative Employees
* Agricultural Stabilization and Conservation County Committee Employees
* Employees Transferred to Public International Organization
* U.S. Commissioners
* Personal Service Contractors of the U.S. Department of the Treasury
* Presidential Appointee
* Provisional Appointee
* Acting Postmaster
End Quote.

COSTS

Again right out of the handbook, using selective quotes:

Begin Quote

Generally, if you are a Federal employee or annuitant, you share the cost of your health benefits coverage with the Government as your employer.

For most employees and annuitants, the Government contribution equals the lesser of: (1) 72 percent of amounts OPM determines are the program-wide weighted average of premiums in effect each year, for Self Only and for Self and Family enrollments, respectively, or (2) 75 percent of the total premium for the particular plan an enrollee selects.

End Quote

How does this compare with your medical coverage? Good question. Here's the cost of Blue Cross Blue Shield fee for service plan. There are many other insurance companies also. This is just the one most choose. It's right out of the benefit plan (http://www.opm.gov/insure/health/rates/ ... fs2010.pdf)

Begin Quote: (Slight Edit to make it fit)

Biweekly costs

Blue Cross and Blue Shield Service Benefit Plan

Basic Self

Total Cost 186.02
Gov't pays 139.52
Empl. pays 46.50

Basic Family

Total Cost 435.66
Gov't pays 326.75
Empl. pays 108.91

End Quote

The medical coverage run by OPM is the public option that is being talked about. I do not have it, my wife as a Federal retiree does. Comparing it to the private company retiree insurance I have, it's similar, better in some ways not so good in others. In addition we both pay Medicare part B premiums. Because of a quirk in the law she pays more for Medicare part B than I do.

Some version of the OPM contracted medical coverage is what is talked about as the public option. Again it is NOT government run, it's insurance company run. What the insurance companies don't like about it is universal coverage and not being able to cheery pick it's customers.

I post this here because much of what has be bitched about here is without facts. Hopefully what I have posted can be used to move the debate to a more intelligent discussion, rather than the biased opinion of TV and radio commentators and political parties.

This great country is headed for a train wreck. The staggering deficit costs, the general decline in a civil political debate, wars without end and no way to pay for it and on and on. It's a good thing most other countries are worst off.

So my word of wisdom, to posters, is think about what you are posting. Think about what you are saying before you hit the send key. Do you really believe the BS you are being feed? Have you shaped your views based on it rather than verifiable facts. Post the facts first, then your opinion. Verifiable facts ... just because it's on the internet, TV, etc. doesn't make it true.
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: coalkirk On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:57 pm

rberq wrote:Believe it or not, that's not what "libs" are trying to do. And while we're on the subject, I know there are some here that use the term "libs" just to p*ss people off. Your arguments, Lisa, are generally on a higher plane than that, so I hate to see you adopt the term. Just call us PWDAWYOE


And the PWDAWYOE refer to folks who participate in the tea parties as "teabaggers" out of respect, not to suggest a sexual act involving oral sex? Right?
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: rockwood On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:38 pm

rberq wrote:you have monopoly and oligopoly. Witness your cable TV company

Cable companies don't have exclusive franchise agreements in any city that I have ever heard of....Anybody can overbuild on an existing cable plant but the reason it doesn't happen much is simple. New plant is very expensive to build and depending on penetration, virtually all the existing customers of the other original system would have to migrate to the new to meet any kind of a payback.
Besides, there are alternatives...satellite, wireless and phone co.
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: smokeyCityTeacher On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:34 pm

Yanche wrote:In the many postings on health care there is frequent reference to the health care provided to Congress. The belief seems to be that it's in a league of it's own. But that's not the case, it's the same health care coverage available to any federal government employee or retiree. It's good health care but certainly not free to it's members. It's no where as inexpensive as the heath care benefits some union contracts offer. The plan is managed by OPM, Office of Personnel Management. See: http://www.opm.gov/Insure/ It is run by insurance companies. IT IS NOT GOVERNMENT RUN INSURANCE. OPM's roll is largely administrative, it defines a minimum core benefit and lets insurance companies bid on the contract annually. The different choices one has depends on where you live and how many insurance companies want to do business in that area. You get to chose what company you want. Your premium is different depending on the insurance company and the benefit. Insurers can not deny coverage for pre-existing conditions. <...snipped for brevity...>


If the bill was to pass in its present form .....

? - would the Fed employees keep their insurance the way it is or be subject to the new plan ?
(a common answer seen on the web is that they would be exempt from the new legislation)

? - would any citizen be able to get that Federal employee plan and get the same amount of subsidization as a Fed employee ?
(a common answer seen on the web is that the public option was to let private citizens buy in BUT they do not get subsidized or get subsidized almost nothing - to the point of making it a very bad deal for anyone but Fed employees.)

note... the gov't itself knows better than to insure its own members with govt run insurance.


Please straighten out these rumors /misconceptions if you can
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