Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:57 pm

jpete wrote:
stockingfull wrote:
jpete wrote:So does the D's plan include legalizing "assisted suicide"?

Do YOU support it?

"Legal" or not, people do it all the time. And docs "assist" them all the time.

I had a relative in AZ who got old, had a little stroke and got scared that she'd lose her mobility and all quality of life. So far as I know, no "terminal illness" in the classic sense. But no kids, so she went to her docs, stopped eating, got some "home hospice" people to come in and give her water and narcotics, and checked out.

No dramatic "Kevorkian cocktail," mind you, but definitely a "designed death." I gather it's nothing unusual anymore. Maybe never was.

Where've you been, man?


So she was illegally given an over dose of narcotics by a medical professional?

Maybe you don't want to say that on a public forum.

I didn't ask you if it were "done all the time", I asked if it was going to be made legal.

People get shot with hand guns all the time, last I checked, it's still generally illegal.

Unless the shooter is a cop and the shootee is black. Then you get a medal.

No overdose, all licensed people administering palliative meds under prescription while she did her thing. But they didn't try to stop her.

No matter what you try to do, or prevent, people can die pretty much when they want to.
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:59 pm

You keep avoiding questions...I'm going to wish I were dead.
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:06 pm

For the really slow here, the answer is that nobody is ever going to legalize Kevorkian-type "active" suicides. But people always have and will continue to do themselves in with benign assistance from the medical profession.
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:12 pm

stockingfull wrote:For the really slow here, the answer is that nobody is ever going to legalize Kevorkian-type "active" suicides. But people always have and will continue to do themselves in with benign assistance from the medical profession.


So the answer is "no".

Would it have killed you to say that to begin with?

I support it whole heartedly. If a person wants to end their life, why would the government tell them they can't?
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:13 pm

jpete wrote:
stockingfull wrote:For the really slow here, the answer is that nobody is ever going to legalize Kevorkian-type "active" suicides. But people always have and will continue to do themselves in with benign assistance from the medical profession.


So the answer is "no".

Would it have killed you to say that to begin with?

I support it whole heartedly. If a person wants to end their life, why would the government tell them they can't?

How can you stop somebody from committing suicide?

By making it illegal?

Death penalty for violation? :rimshot:

I know you're talking about docs who "assist" but, even then, I don't think docs will ever go farther than they now do, for the same reasons not all docs perform abortions. With the elderly, it's even more complicated, both ethically and legally.
Last edited by stockingfull on Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: coalkirk On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:17 pm

stockingfull wrote:No matter what you try to do, or prevent, people can die pretty much when they want to.


I'm not sure I understand. Can you demonstrate for us? :lol: :lol: :P
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:18 pm

coalkirk wrote:
stockingfull wrote:No matter what you try to do, or prevent, people can die pretty much when they want to.


I'm not sure I understand. Can you demonstrate for us? :lol: :lol: :P

No, Terry, my work isn't done. Your head hasn't exploded yet. :hammer:
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:34 pm

quote="rberq"]
lowfog01 wrote:... show me one country where liberalism has worked to the benefit of the citizens ...

rberq wrote: "Norway. Small, liberal, and one of the richest in the world in per capita income." [/quote]

Yes a quick trip around the internet shows that Norway has a very high standard of living. It also will show you that Norway has a 49.5% income tax and is topped off with a 25% value added tax. In case you not familiar with the VAT tax – that tax is added every time your product moves from one stage of production to another, i.e. you have added value to the product. By the time the consumer purchases the product it will have been taxed multiply times and that tax is passed on to the consumer at each level. You can buy a lot of benefits with that but over time that level of taxation will become unsustainable. The well is only so deep before you hit the bottom. Just imagine the standard of living you could have if you were able to keep a little more of what you earn in your pocket by not providing for others who don’t work as hard as you do for the same benefits you work hard to achieve. http://www.mn2020hindsight.org/?p=2812

lowfog01 wrote:Like it or not capitalism works and it provides the standard of living we each enjoy ...

rberq wrote; "The U.S. has not been purely capitalist for a VERY long time. I guess you could consider slavery capitalist, since slaves were property used for production. Sadly, we did away with that piece of capitalism. Capitalism as such refers to owning the means of production, and does not define whether a country is socialist or not. Socialism, as the term is used nowadays, refers to the distribution of whatever is produced. "Competition" is what many people really mean when they say "capitalism" -- in your example, the ability of a poor boy to compete and become a Senator. Competition still exists, largely in the small business world, but get much beyond that and you have monopoly and oligopoly. Witness your cable TV company, the oil companies, the big banks, Microsoft, and on and on and on -- their specialty is squashing competition to further enrich themselves. I'm all in favor of strong and fair COMPETITION -- but there's not enough of it around to give it so much credit."

No, the U.S. hasn't been purely capitalist for a very long time. I can't remember a time in our country's history that the government didn't try to get his fingers in the pie. That doesn’t mean we should abandon the system. We should work harder to make it work better for us all. I don't understand your reference to slavery - slavery was a horrific system which was left to fester for too long a time. If anything it is a representation of socialism where the means of production is owned by the central authority and profits are distributed equally among the workers. Except even under this model slaves had incentive to do better, house slaves received more return on their effort than did field slaves.

I have to disagree – capitalism does define whether or not a country is socialist or not. Under capitalism the means of production, i.e. materials and labor, are privately owned and the benefits gained are split among those that produced the product based on the level of each individual’s efforts. Understandably competition plays a huge part in capitalism. The drive for less expensive materials and labor while producing a quality product people want is what provides a lasting high standard of living. That drive to build a better mouse trap is what makes Americans stand apart from citizens of other countries. The harder you work, the more you gain. Socialism does not allow for unbound individual advancement. The means of production is control by the state and all benefits derived by the effort are split equitable. There is no incentive to work harder or build a better mouse trap. Someone is going to delivery your benefits tomorrow regardless of what you did today. That’s been documented through time.

Rberg wrote “ And while we're on the subject, I know there are some here that use the term "libs" just to p*ss people off. Your arguments, Lisa, are generally on a higher plane than that, so I hate to see you adopt the term. Just call us PWDAWYOE -- people who don't agree with you on everything. :)[/quote]

I don’t use the term libs to tick people off. There is nothing to gain by ticking people off as it does nothing to advance the conversation. I use libs to describe the thoughts and actions of individuals who display the ideology of liberals or progressives. Since that is the simplest label that best defines that ideology that is the term I will use. I am sorry if offends anyone or maybe doesn't quite define you but you are known by the company you keep. Lisa
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:40 pm

Lisa, it's very hard to follow your posts because the quotes you use aren't accurately coded.
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: samhill On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:41 pm

Like I was saying teach those millions are in the ERs already, if they had insurance they could go to a doctors office or clinic instead of tieing up the ER. Where do you live in the hill or Homewood-Brushton. Not that it hasn`t spread far & wide since I was there last.
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: coalkirk On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:48 pm

Sam, I don't know where you live, but stop into an ER in a city the next time you have a moment and see who is there. In Baltimore, it's at least 50% illegal aliens. And 50% is a conservative estimate.
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:49 pm

samhill wrote:Like I was saying teach those millions are in the ERs already, if they had insurance they could go to a doctors office or clinic instead of tieing up the ER. Where do you live in the hill or Homewood-Brushton. Not that it hasn`t spread far & wide since I was there last.


Great, it's not bad enough that I wait more than an hour AFTER my scheduled appointment at some of my regular doctors, now I'll bring a sleeping bag with me!
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: samhill On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:57 pm

As luck would have it the Pittsburgh area (at least a few years ago) didn`t have many illegals compaired to most moderate size cities. The ERs there were mostly the generation after generation welfare scum.
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: smokeyCityTeacher On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:14 pm

samhill wrote:Like I was saying teach those millions are in the ERs already, if they had insurance they could go to a doctors office or clinic instead of tieing up the ER. Where do you live in the hill or Homewood-Brushton. Not that it hasn`t spread far & wide since I was there last.


Most of the people in my area which is Homewood Brushton Wilkinsburg are on welfare, food stamps, section 8 and a few other programs I cant remember.

They CAN go to doctors. Their medical cards give them coverage. The problem is they are too lazy to make an appointment in many cases and just want to go to the ER which is instant service w/o making appointments and all that time consuming crap that they have no patience for.

My little sister works in the E.R as a Physicians Assistant and she spends most of her time telling people "WE CANNOT GIVE YOU PERCOCET/OXYCONTIN FOR YOUR HEADACHE"! She then ask them about their insurance and informs them they can go to a doctor for treatment of their non-emergency conditions.

Almost all them are on welfare and are covered by it. They CAN go to a doctor but prefer to use the E.R as their PCP and front end for ALL medical services

( i swear i just posted this but i cant find it - sorry if this is a double post/response )

That is the E.R situation.

Now we come the hospitals situation. When millions of people who were not on welfare and do not use the E.R for headaches - these are just plain poor people who are underemployed and can;t afford insurance - when these poeple flood the hospitals to get real treatment they have put off - we have a problem.
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Re: Here is what the Democrats need to do to pass thier bill

PostBy: smokeyCityTeacher On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:22 pm

stockingfull wrote:
coalkirk wrote:
stockingfull wrote:No matter what you try to do, or prevent, people can die pretty much when they want to.


I'm not sure I understand. Can you demonstrate for us? :lol: :lol: :P

No, Terry, my work isn't done. Your head hasn't exploded yet. :hammer:


Terry - are SURE this guy isnt .. like a re-incarnation of one of your ex wives or something ?

Didn't you kill her with a shovel ?
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