My Burnham Boiler stops working at night??

Re: My Burnham Boiler stops working at night??

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:05 pm

I would confirm the buzzing when it happens again. shoot from the hip guesstimate would point to the contactor on the aquastat... that black relay looking thing.

can you see if the point contacts are burned?

im not to partial to the carlin ignitors tho...
Poconoeagle
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Buckwalter & Co. , EFM520
Stove/Furnace Model: No. 28 Glenwood 1880, Alaska

Re: My Burnham Boiler stops working at night??

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:16 pm

Did that front panel toast up like that recently/all of a sudden? Is it hot to the touch when running?
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: My Burnham Boiler stops working at night??

PostBy: jaimz23 On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:18 pm

Poconoeagle wrote:I would confirm the buzzing when it happens again. shoot from the hip guesstimate would point to the contactor on the aquastat... that black relay looking thing.

can you see if the point contacts are burned?

im not to partial to the carlin ignitors tho...


I will definitely take a look if/when this happens again. Where about should i look for the point contacts on the black relay looking thing? Top, bottom, inside? I just heard it kick on again so we're still good. As far as the Carkin Ignitor goes...the dummy who"fixed it in the first place replaced the old one with that one last year. So maybe, it could be the ignitor as well?
Last edited by jaimz23 on Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:44 pm, edited 5 times in total.
jaimz23
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Burnham Boiler/Harman Trident
Stove/Furnace Model: V-13A/SF-260


Re: My Burnham Boiler stops working at night??

PostBy: jaimz23 On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:21 pm

coaledsweat wrote:Did that front panel toast up like that recently/all of a sudden? Is it hot to the touch when running?


As far as the front panel goes, it was like that when we bought the place a year ago. I believe it is hot to the touch, but i really haven't touched it all that much when it is running, because when it's running I really have no reason to be down there. lol
jaimz23
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Burnham Boiler/Harman Trident
Stove/Furnace Model: V-13A/SF-260

Re: My Burnham Boiler stops working at night??

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:34 pm

many electrical failures with transformer's can usually be traced back to poor supply current thus resistance (heat) or the transformer (or coil) 's ability to disperse heat. old automotive ignition coils were oil filled. it was for heat transfer to the case and thus to the bracket it was mounted to and thus to the car body it was bolted to. the newer "solid state" epoxy sealed stuff still has heat sinks inside and i am sure you know about that stuff....

so if and when check the "connections" for the flow of the juice!!

if the contactor isnt supplying enough current thru and to the control unit and ignitor and its getting warm and thremally shutting down, thus causing the flame sensor to see an out fire, it will pop the red button and shut the motor/fuel pump off. those fan-shaft driven fuel pumps will and can create between 100 and 140 PSI !!!! of fuel pressure thru that wicked skinny copper fuel supply pipe to the nozzle tip.... so no flame means shut the darn fuel flow off quick by killing the fan motor. now dont forget to also check the ability to hand spin the motor shaft(squirrel cage fan blade) visible under the Carlin as a verification of the bad spot on the motor possibility!

8-)

P.S. the white fibre gasket between the whole beckett burner assembly and the scorched cover is all of a couple bucks.... coal isnt that hard... :lol:
Poconoeagle
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Buckwalter & Co. , EFM520
Stove/Furnace Model: No. 28 Glenwood 1880, Alaska

Re: My Burnham Boiler stops working at night??

PostBy: packard bill On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:46 pm

By the looks of the nuts that hold the burner head to the front of the boiler, your burner has probably not been off the boiler since it was installed. The burner head mounting gasket is probably bad, hence, the burned front boiler skin from back blast leaking out. This will damage your "fireye". I too am not a fan of carlin ignition transformers. Your breaching (smoke pipe setup) leaves a lot to be desired also. Is your barometric working properly? Poor exhaust will give you bad draft and would cause a dirty fire and again, damage your fireye or get soot on it, rendering it non-functional. If the fireye does not sense flame it will not allow the transformer to ignite the fire, sending you into a reset mode. When was the last time the boiler was cleaned properly? i.e. actually brushed. Throwing a "soot stick" in the firebox is not the way to clean a boiler. Check your chimney where your breach pipe enters and make sure it's not blocked with soot. If you have a cleanout in the bottom of the chimney, stick a mirror
(womans compact) in and look up to the sky (during daylight hours of course) and make sure the flue is clean. You have many issues that need attention.
packard bill
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: DS Machine and homebuilt
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Franco-Belge
Coal Size/Type: Nut,pea
Stove/Furnace Make: Franco Belge 40k
Stove/Furnace Model: D.S. Machine boiler

Re: My Burnham Boiler stops working at night??

PostBy: jaimz23 On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:58 pm

I can't thank you enough for the responses. I feel like the more we discuss it the closer I am getting to isolating the problem. I just got off the phone with my uncle and he is decently knowledgable in HVAC and he said maybe it's fine when it is running for a long period, but the more frequent turning on and off towards night time/early morning is actually what is overheating it. So whatever part could be actually overheating from frequent on/off is most likely the culprit. It sounds like you touched on it in your last post. I will be keeping my eyes open for all of this thanks to you and the other members who have posted. Yes, I do know about heat sinks (actually some of the stuff I work on has a heat sink glue in it and it is ungodly messy and sticky and is my mortal enemy. lol) I have a feeling it isn't going to happen tonight because our temperature is actually supposed to climb overnight to around 54 degrees tomorrow morning. I actually hope this happens because this will further my belief that if it needs to turn on and off less it doesn't stop running thus pointing to the issues you stated in your last post. Thanks again.
jaimz23
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Burnham Boiler/Harman Trident
Stove/Furnace Model: V-13A/SF-260

Re: My Burnham Boiler stops working at night??

PostBy: jaimz23 On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:05 pm

packard bill wrote:By the looks of the nuts that hold the burner head to the front of the boiler, your burner has probably not been off the boiler since it was installed. The burner head mounting gasket is probably bad, hence, the burned front boiler skin from back blast leaking out. This will damage your "fireye". I too am not a fan of carlin ignition transformers. Your breaching (smoke pipe setup) leaves a lot to be desired also. Is your barometric working properly? Poor exhaust will give you bad draft and would cause a dirty fire and again, damage your fireye or get soot on it, rendering it non-functional. If the fireye does not sense flame it will not allow the transformer to ignite the fire, sending you into a reset mode. When was the last time the boiler was cleaned properly? i.e. actually brushed. Throwing a "soot stick" in the firebox is not the way to clean a boiler. Check your chimney where your breach pipe enters and make sure it's not blocked with soot. If you have a cleanout in the bottom of the chimney, stick a mirror
(womans compact) in and look up to the sky (during daylight hours of course) and make sure the flue is clean. You have many issues that need attention.


Wow, that just sent me right back down to the dumps. As far as the barometric... i don't know what you are talking about?

As far as the breaching goes, it was set up by the company who has been "fixing" this for the last year.

It was cleaned last year. As far as how well, I really couldn't tell you.

I only need to finish this winter with it and then it's my Harman Trident.
jaimz23
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Burnham Boiler/Harman Trident
Stove/Furnace Model: V-13A/SF-260

Re: My Burnham Boiler stops working at night??

PostBy: jaimz23 On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:11 pm

P.S. where again is the "fireye" located so i can check and see if it is very dirty?
jaimz23
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Burnham Boiler/Harman Trident
Stove/Furnace Model: V-13A/SF-260

Re: My Burnham Boiler stops working at night??

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:17 pm

the carlin should have a screw or two on the side opposite the hinge..(side with the carlin sticker)

if you remove them or just loosen them and swivel the "hold down" pieces, you can swing up the ignitor. you will see several things in there. one the oil supply pipe to the nozzle. two the two ceramic looking rods which are the "spark plug" three the cage fan down there four the flame eye. it has the two yellow wires that go over and attach to the control unit (with the red button)
:)

naturally the "eye" portion will be facing the boiler...flame...

ya shut the switch off first?????? :P
Poconoeagle
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Buckwalter & Co. , EFM520
Stove/Furnace Model: No. 28 Glenwood 1880, Alaska

Re: My Burnham Boiler stops working at night??

PostBy: jaimz23 On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:25 pm

Thanks, I will take a look at this tonight or tomorrow after work and see what if anything happens...maybe even take a picture or two. Now if the cage turns when I attempt to spin it, is that considered a problem or is it not a problem when it turns? Basically, how will I know if there is a dead spot in the motor by turning the fan/ then closing it up and turning it back on??
jaimz23
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Burnham Boiler/Harman Trident
Stove/Furnace Model: V-13A/SF-260

Re: My Burnham Boiler stops working at night??

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:26 pm

yes.
Poconoeagle
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Buckwalter & Co. , EFM520
Stove/Furnace Model: No. 28 Glenwood 1880, Alaska

Re: My Burnham Boiler stops working at night??

PostBy: Berlin On: Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:41 am

A couple of things: 1. burner head burned off- this is very common w/ becketts esp. in an overfire situation or with deteriorating combustion chamber - which, by the look of your boiler is very likely, pull the blast tube and have a look. 2. dirty electric eye. 3. bad carlin transformer 4. (very likely) bad motor.

Oil burners are not a very complex piece of equiptment, if you are so inclined, you might try a few things yourself before calling a tech, and you might learn a little bit about burners too:

I would approach this problem this way: 1. get yourself a (whatever gph your boiler calls for probably around 1.00)x80º hollow cone nozzle, pull blast tube, if retention head is burned off or damaged/carbon covered replace it (cheap part) w/ an "F 3" beckett head (will work for whatever gph you're firing). 2. take kleenex/windex and gently clean electric eye. 3. check combusion chamber for excess soot/ be sure boiler passages are not sooted up. 4. re-install. set baro to .02 setting - don't worry about manometer, just set it on the factory settings on baro (be sure it's level and plumb) 5. open fire viewing port (provided burner will start) adjust the flame so that the tips are smokey, then open the air shutter untill all smoke ceases (you can check this w/ a flashlight through the baro.) then open the air just a little more so that the fire gets a little brighter, but not very much smaller. close it up and have a beer :)

If that's what was wrong with it (burner head) then it probably hasn't been adjusted properly in years. Unfortunately most techs wouldn't know what a proper flame looks like if you showed them and most of the time they won't set the burner up properly w/ bach kit either. Most of the time when they replace a nozzle they simply grab close to the firing rate/spray angle of the one in there and throw it in w/ no regard to the air setting at all. Outside of the occasional bad transformer/motors/controls etc. by far most of the oil burner/boiler issues i've seen are related to: filter/nozzle/end cones/dirty electric eye/electrode position/air settings.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: My Burnham Boiler stops working at night??

PostBy: jaimz23 On: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:27 pm

I removed the Carlin (well i opened it and checked the fire eye and it actually looks really clean from what I can tell. There is no soot on it and it has a nice shine to it. I tried to move the fan and i moved it and turned the breaker back on and it still did not start up after i hit the reset. Well, basically i will have no heat tonight and I'm still not sure why. The red light is on on the Honeywell ignition controller and it was that relay under the step down transformer on the aquastat that was buzzing, but i'm not sure if it was any sort of problem I touched it and it stopped buzzing.

When I hit the reset, the fan starts up, I can hear it and it runs for like 15 - 20 seconds and I smell fuel pretty good and then it just stops. I don't know if its that Carlin or what? I have a service guy coming because I can't be without heat. Not looking forward to the bill.
jaimz23
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Burnham Boiler/Harman Trident
Stove/Furnace Model: V-13A/SF-260

Re: My Burnham Boiler stops working at night??

PostBy: Berlin On: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:45 pm

if you're smelling fuel and the motor is running, eye is clean, sounds like either transformer or electrode issue. I'd still pull the burner and check the endcone or at least have the service guy do it; I'd like to pull it off to get a good picture of what the endcone looks like and the combustion chamber too rather than just pulling the tube from the fan housing and looking down it.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal