The Immorality of the Left

Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: franco b On: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:06 pm

"For the left to assume a moral imperative in their quest for socialism, they must ignore Judeo-Christian tradition. They are ignorant at best and wanton at worst. They will rob the spirit of industrious men and reward those lacking in spirit."

That was written by mikeandgerry.

Beautifully composed with a world of meaning in its cogency. And yet it will probably just be lost in the shuffle. In three sentences we have the basic differences between left and right that make reconciliation very unlikely.
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:15 pm

Millworker wrote:
You either know a lot about this family that gave nearly 1 million dollars to the Hunger Project in Africa or you are judging them without really knowing the motivations within their hearts. I would assume it's not the later because as someone who quotes the Bible, you would be familiar with Luke 6:37 which states "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."



I understand "judge not lest thee be judged." But, do you? If I am in no position to judge them, then neither are you.

You have taken the opportunity to judge them as benevolent, giving, and a high order example of virtue. The left holds up this act as an example of virtue. It may be, but how virtuous is giving up something when that something is nothing to you? Sacrifice is an expression of love. Only God knows the true level of sacrifice. But Christ showed us how he judged sacrifice.

That is the lesson of the Bible and you have missed it entirely. Don't let yourself be duped by superficial arguments. My intent was to teach, not to condemn. You are correct in that I may not condemn or judge the people in the example. But did I? I praised them, within limits, and condemned the left for fawning over it and other such acts without considering the relative value.

You quote Luke 6:37 out of context. A few lines further in Luke 6 yields this:

40 A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher.

41 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 42 How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.


The bible cannot be discussed or taught effectively without application to real life. Those who cleverly attempt to stifle such conversation by invoking Luke 6:37 misunderstand true virtue and seek to condemn the Word.
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: cokehead On: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:46 pm

"The problem with liberals is that eventually they run out of everybody else's money." I can't remember who it is I quoted. I only wish it was mine. :)
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:57 pm

franco b wrote:Most of us have been brought up to believe in and accept Judeo-Christian morality.

...[the] society that violates [those rules] does so at its peril.

Among these rules are those that proscribe stealing and the coveting of your neighbors goods. The left in the name of fairness thinks it OK to steal from others. Not personally, but by empowering the state to do it for them.

But by far the greatest theft if the left is successful is that of opportunity.

...So the populace had to be armed with a deadly weapon. The nobility walked and talked a great deal more softly in the knowledge that a deadly army could be assembled practically overnight. Minutemen.

Look at the internet, free wheeling at its best. Imagine what will happen with the left in control. Even the turgid posts of stocking have worth. Imagine also what is possible in the future if opportunity is not stolen.

The left are the Luddites of the twenty first century, not by wrecking machinery, but by wrecking freedom and opportunity.


I am so glad you started this thread.

My concerns for the future are just as you posit and they have been my concern for quite some time:

the erosion of moral value
the constriction of the greatest freedom: opportunity
the ever-encroaching stranglehold of the government
the lack of parity in firepower on the part of the people
and the iconoclastic nature of the left.

It's an excellent synopsis of where we came from and where we are headed, if we are not vigilant.
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:20 am

What bothers me here is that many see the problems with what you perceive as the far left, but you see nothing at all problematic with the perceived far right. IMO thats one of the biggest problems our country faces, the fact that no middle exists for most.
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: franco b On: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:24 pm

samhill wrote:What bothers me here is that many see the problems with what you perceive as the far left, but you see nothing at all problematic with the perceived far right. IMO thats one of the biggest problems our country faces, the fact that no middle exists for most.


I think most perceive our present government as far left. I don't know who you feel are the far right and what the problem is. Is it the nut case who blew up a federal building in retribution for the murders of women and children in Waco Texas? One nut versus an army of wannabe Gestapo. Was it Randy Miller whose wife was shot dead standing in her doorway holding her child? His crime was sawing off a shotgun barrel one inch too short. Who are the problematic right?

I think most of the country is slightly to the right of middle and that middle is slowly dying in the forlorn hope of change.
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:23 pm

I tend to think of the far right are the ones that refuse to work with the present administration & I`m not saying that B.O.& gang is totally right but refusing to do what you swore an oath to do for your own political or self centered purpose is totally wrong. Failure to admit that some things were done wrong in the first place & there again not just in the last nine years or so, but if everything was going along so well, what happened? failure to not look back can be as bad as not looking ahead. Believing something is right without educating yourself just because some talking head says its so & that also works both ways is wrong. The thinking that big business will govern itself & do whats best for the country is way out there in far right land. I`ve said before & I`ll say again its a shame that its necessary to have to have Gov. limitations but without it would be like a playground recess without a teacher.
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:36 pm

samhill wrote:Believing something is right without educating yourself just because some talking head says its so & that also works both ways is wrong.


You mean like the left wingers did with the global warming issue? As far as most people are concerned, the left, the enviro- nuts, and the former main stream media have discredited themselves beyond the point-of-no-return. They were pathological liars in the pursuit of their Global Climate Change initiatives which were not about saving the planet but rather promoting a left wing/socialist power strategy.

They are not only liars but coordinated, calculating liars who cannot be "worked with". Obama stated this quite clearly recently by saying that he would entertain any healthcare plan from the right so long as it met his objectives. WTF. Obviously it is Obama that isn't willing to work with the right.
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:05 pm

Obviously your one of the ones that can`t converse without the name calling & just stating as fact what you believe.
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:26 am

Are you saying the global warming scientists, left wingers, environmentalists and other promoters of erroneous radical policies that would put the economy in a tailspin, were telling the truth?

Good Lord, sam, I did state fact. The only name calling I did was "liar" which is technically correct, and enviro-nut which is also technically correct because their ideological zeal eclipses reality.
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: samhill On: Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:41 am

There are extremes in everything, I don`t believe that every environmentalist or GWS are necessarily what you call left wingers & what I take you mean by that Dem.s. It seems that scientist probably because of tight budgets take one anothers work as ligit & go from there. I live in a very environment friendly area which also happens to be a large Rep. area. That said I believe that the deforestation of the earth is more at fault for GW but I don`t go around hugging trees. The envior-nuts as you call them were around long before Gore decided that there was money to be made. Now when Boeher goes on TV & makes a statement that he & his party will do nothing for this Pres. speaks for itself. And it is the Rep.s that are refusing to come to the table unless its under their terms. The Dem.s should get new a new leader for Pelosi I think she is one of the biggest problems. Politics has digressed to the point where some are getting out because they are fed up ( & they also get a great pension ). They all take an oath but with the lobbies their votes are up for the highest bid. I said elsewhere for HC they should have the 5 or so youngest from each side hash it out without any interference & present it. Hopefully the youngest will be the least corrupt & "hey" some might even remember real life before politics. Remember congress legislates & the Pres. signs.
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:12 pm

The science is clear. Global warming has no significant anthropogenic cause. There is no data to support it. Those who use beliefs to support science don't care about science, they care about ideology. Those people I call enviro-nuts. They are not necessarily left wingers but the vast majority are so. As a result, the democrats pander to them to derive power from popular emotion.

Republicans with concern for the environment used to be known as conservationists. We live by the rule that you don't defecate where you eat and, the earth was made for using, not abusing. Enviro-nuts worship the earth at the expense of man. Conservationists believe the earth should be used for man's benefit and secondly, through careful stewardship, preserved for our posterity.

As for politics, if there is dissent, then there is dissent. Obama wants it one way and the R's another. Bipartisanship is impossible when the views are opposed. For either party to claim that the other party won't "come to the table" is demagoguery. Neither party should violate its beliefs. Their job is to represent the people. If they have better information than the people, they must share it and influence the people. If they cannot do that then they must do the bidding of the people by representing the people with their vote.

Most of us don't think the health care system is in need of government reform to the degree that it must be nationalized. Some of us don't think it is broken at all. Why should I change my mind when I don't have a reason to do so? The current political argument is simply whether or not the rich should be forced by law to buy the poor the same luxuries in health care that they have... yes, people, hip replacements and cancer treatments are expensive luxuries. If we cannot afford them individually, we do not deserve them. The only exception I see is coverage for children.

I would like a bigger house, with bigger closets, twelve foot ceilings, a setting in the woods or one with a view, a few acres of land, a big TV, a Hummer, a heated shop, a hot tub, and a swimming pool. All those things I feel I deserve and I think they would make my life happier and healthier for me and my family. The problem is...I can't afford them but, neither am I so arrogant as to assume that someone else should buy them for me.
Last edited by mikeandgerry on Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:42 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: samhill On: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:22 pm

Where do you get your facts from mike, I would bet that you could get just as many scientist to see one way or the other depending on where the funding is coming from. Just because you assign a label to someone or a certain group doesn`t make it so. Is it just your opinion that the left is immoral or are you full of actual facts?
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: SMITTY On: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:25 pm

Based on what I've seen come from the left, MikeandGerry is full of facts.
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: samhill On: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:37 pm

I guess you could call it facts.
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