The Immorality of the Left

Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:30 pm

:lol: Ok, boys, you can go ahead and say what you're thinking....I'm a big boy!

Sam, facts is facts but, morality is what we say it is--or if you are a Believer, what God says it is.

Our Founders, despite the popular fad of deism at the time, were grounded by Judeo-Christian morality.

While we are all sinners on an individual basis, No large institution in the US has challenged Judeo-Christian morality more than the Democrat party. Some call it being progressive, others call it immorality. Relax.
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: samhill On: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:56 pm

Then your saying your morality is a belief & not a fact. When then I guess its so because mike sayith so.
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: franco b On: Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:20 pm

samhill wrote:Then your saying your morality is a belief & not a fact. When then I guess its so because mike sayith so.


Please reread my post that started this thread.

Immorality is that which goes counter to the spirit of man.

Most conservatives feel that the left does, or tries to do, just that.

The death of the Unicorn gives them pleasure.
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: samhill On: Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:19 pm

First I had no idea that you spoke for most conservatives, I speak only for myself. In the original post you profess somehow that liberals are thieves but don`t say how you came to this conclusion just that libs somehow take away opportunity I believe is what you said. Now I think of what your saying is that libs want to take the opportunity for big business to make its mega bucks so I`m guessing that you condone how big business takes away or steals from the average man, as an example how wall st., other big businesses with the blessing of the Gov. helped to put the country in its current state as being a sound business opportunity.
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: franco b On: Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:12 pm

samhill wrote:First I had no idea that you spoke for most conservatives, I speak only for myself. In the original post you profess somehow that liberals are thieves but don`t say how you came to this conclusion just that libs somehow take away opportunity I believe is what you said. Now I think of what your saying is that libs want to take the opportunity for big business to make its mega bucks so I`m guessing that you condone how big business takes away or steals from the average man, as an example how wall st., other big businesses with the blessing of the Gov. helped to put the country in its current state as being a sound business opportunity.


There can't be an argument when you set up straw men in order to knock them down easily.

I was addressing the theology (not ideology) of liberalism or proto socialism since its tenets rely on faith, rather than on the findings of anthropology, zoology, or history for its assumptions.

Joseph Conrad in his book Lord Jim referred to a government employee as having "a saving dullness", the inference being that dullness was needed to withstand the ennui of that employ.

And yes, I think I can speak for conservatives in wanting to avoid the inhuman paradise that liberalism promises.

I thought I made it clear that liberals wanted to empower government to steal for them in the furtherance of their religion.
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: samhill On: Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:52 pm

I believe it was William Penn that said (& I`m not quoting word for word) something about a sound man being able to make his point with few & simple words. You always seem like your trying to impress with your verbal skills but are saying nothing. Are you now implying that all liberals are of the same religion or that liberalism is a religion? Also in stating that you think that you can speak for conservatives, who is it that anointed you with this authority?
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: franco b On: Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:24 am

samhill wrote:I believe it was William Penn that said (& I`m not quoting word for word) something about a sound man being able to make his point with few & simple words. You always seem like your trying to impress with your verbal skills but are saying nothing. Are you now implying that all liberals are of the same religion or that liberalism is a religion? Also in stating that you think that you can speak for conservatives, who is it that anointed you with this authority?


Yes I do believe liberalism is a religion since it is based on faith. I thought I said that.

I agree that few and simple words are best. In an effort to use few words I had to select more carefully in order to convey meaning more exactly. I am a poor and slow typist so need to use fewer words. I apologize if the meaning is not clear.

I can speak for conservatives on basic values in the same sense that a Christian can speak of the basic belief in Jesus.
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:29 pm

samhill wrote:Then your saying your morality is a belief & not a fact. When then I guess its so because mike sayith so.


The word I used in my explanation, "we", means "mankind", or some social subset of mankind. I didn't mean that I created the rules.

I believe in absolute morality which is another way of saying God's law.

Society has found some of God's law too difficult. Thus secular morality developed. Secular morality is changeable.
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:42 pm

franco b wrote:Yes I do believe liberalism is a religion since it is based on faith. I thought I said that.



And that faith is further exemplified by the global climate change fiasco recently. Science, which seeks the truth about the physical world through the empirical, applying metrics and collecting data in a disciplined manner, was stolen by the left whose faith is in their political beliefs. They differ from the secular by their blind adherence to an unproven belief (faith in anthropogenic global climate change).
Last edited by mikeandgerry on Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: gerard On: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:45 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:The science is clear. Global warming has no significant anthropogenic cause. There is no data to support it. Those who use beliefs to support science don't care about science, they care about ideology. Those people I call enviro-nuts. They are not necessarily left wingers but the vast majority are so. As a result, the democrats pander to them to derive power from popular emotion.

Republicans with concern for the environment used to be known as conservationists. We live by the rule that you don't defecate where you eat and, the earth was made for using, not abusing. Enviro-nuts worship the earth at the expense of man. Conservationists believe the earth should be used for man's benefit and secondly, through careful stewardship, preserved for our posterity.

As for politics, if there is dissent, then there is dissent. Obama wants it one way and the R's another. Bipartisanship is impossible when the views are opposed. For either party to claim that the other party won't "come to the table" is demagoguery. Neither party should violate its beliefs. Their job is to represent the people. If they have better information than the people, they must share it and influence the people. If they cannot do that then they must do the bidding of the people by representing the people with their vote.

Most of us don't think the health care system is in need of government reform to the degree that it must be nationalized. Some of us don't think it is broken at all. Why should I change my mind when I don't have a reason to do so? The current political argument is simply whether or not the rich should be forced by law to buy the poor the same luxuries in health care that they have... yes, people, hip replacements and cancer treatments are expensive luxuries. If we cannot afford them individually, we do not deserve them. The only exception I see is coverage for children.

I would like a bigger house, with bigger closets, twelve foot ceilings, a setting in the woods or one with a view, a few acres of land, a big TV, a Hummer, a heated shop, a hot tub, and a swimming pool. All those things I feel I deserve and I think they would make my life happier and healthier for me and my family. The problem is...I can't afford them but, neither am I so arrogant as to assume that someone else should buy them for me.

Very well said. Why is what should be self evident to any literate, moderately intelligent person, not?
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:10 pm

If thats directed at myself or anyone else in particular why not just come out & say what you mean rather than dancing?
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:50 am

Earnestly, Samhill, I have no idea who or what you are addressing.
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:34 am

mike, I was addressing gerard, but I guessing that he & yourself are of like mind. If you believe that liberalism then I`m guessing also that conservatives would also be a religion, just a guess here not trying to offend.
If you really believe that bipartisanship is then IMO you believe that our Gov. is done for because simply put if you can`t compromise on anything nothing will ever get done.
I read some of the various digested versions of the H.C. bills & I didn`t see wording in any that said it would require the wealthy to pay for the less fortunates H.C., what does totally confuse me is when ( again thinking you are both of like mind)are totally in agreement to allow people in our great country to suffer & die simply because they can`t afford care. First off a medical doctor takes an oath not to do that very thing. But to call youselves (& again I`m guessing here) patriotic Americans & believers in GODs law, I believe that this country was founded by people trying to escape some of the very things that you propose.
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: franco b On: Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:02 pm

samhill wrote:mike, I was addressing gerard, but I guessing that he & yourself are of like mind. If you believe that liberalism then I`m guessing also that conservatives would also be a religion, just a guess here not trying to offend.
If you really believe that bipartisanship is then IMO you believe that our Gov. is done for because simply put if you can`t compromise on anything nothing will ever get done.
I read some of the various digested versions of the H.C. bills & I didn`t see wording in any that said it would require the wealthy to pay for the less fortunates H.C., what does totally confuse me is when ( again thinking you are both of like mind)are totally in agreement to allow people in our great country to suffer & die simply because they can`t afford care. First off a medical doctor takes an oath not to do that very thing. But to call youselves (& again I`m guessing here) patriotic Americans & believers in GODs law, I believe that this country was founded by people trying to escape some of the very things that you propose.


Even though addressed to Mike I would like to throw in my 2 cents. He will answer for himself.

First, thank you for a post that gives us insight into why a seemingly sincere and nice person holds views so opposed to what I and other conservatives believe. I think that is what Gerard was getting at. So many including myself are at a loss to make sense of the liberal position. That is what this particular forum is for. Not for partisan bickering.

Conservatism is not a religion because it is based on what has been proven successful in the past. A free market with minimal government interference. The very things that have resulted in an explosion of prosperity for all in the past. It is the environment in which humans can best reach their full potential and so benefit all. Abuses have occurred and been recognized which is proper, and legislation passed to maintain as fair and open a market as possible. This includes both monopolistic business and labor. An unholy alliance of government with big business or any other special interest is abhorrent, including those that the left favors.

There can be no compromise when one side proposes in effect to kill you. Like begging a terrorist to just kill you a little bit.

Health care reform is needed, but not as another unholy alliance. Big drugs and big insurance and screw the doctors and the patients while driving costs through the roof.

God's law is the law of our kind (species) and you and I and our society will obey it,like it or not or even if unaware of it, or perish. Science is the learning of that law. It is the finding out of what we already knew at birth.

This country was founded by people tired of the tyranny of big government. They found a place to be human. The current malaise or sickness of spirit in our country was best expressed with marvelous brevity by Poconoeagle when he said "sick and tired of being sick and tired."
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Re: The Immorality of the Left

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:12 pm

I`ll agreed with a lot of what you said, I`m all for big responsible business & a free market but big business itself has proven to be untrustworthy & the history that I think of what you speak in the heyday of manufacturing & virtually all big business booming isn`t all that great when you dissect it. There have always been many abuses but the infection of greed is higher than ever IMO. I don`t know what your referring to about one side proposing to kill. Health care is correctly needed & should be obtained in a bipartisan faction but that requires productive ideas from both sides where both have to give & take. A simple criticism of what was or is being done without recommendation of what & how another direction might help does nothing but hinder. Now if you truly believe that this countries problems have all come about in the last what thirteen months or so then so be there is no farther use in this banter but IMO a conserative party had the majority of at least the last few decades & has done little or nothing to make it better in fact might just have made it a lot worse. The fact that no one takes responsibility for their words or actions is what I think is immoral. Immorality refers to a lot more than religious beliefs IMO.
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