Need a little advice on an older Kodiak Stoker Stove II

Need a little advice on an older Kodiak Stoker Stove II

PostBy: cntbill On: Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:32 pm

I just picked up a Alaska Kodiak Stoker Stove II, got it for a price I couldn't pass up.

I am looking for some advice on what the best process would be before setting this up. Other than cleaning it out a bit inside and maybe replacing the gaskets on the doors, what else should I check to be sure this will safely run? Should I just clean it up a bit and see how it goes or just take it all apart first and replace all the gaskets and such?

This stove didn't come with any controls, and there is no wires to the top blower fan. The stoker grate fell out, I didn't know that it would if the stove was laid on its side. :roll:

From what I have read here I guess I really don't need any electrical controls for it to run. But what about the stoker grate, should that have both a rope gasket and furnace cement and what is the size of that gasket?

Attached is a bunch of pictures of it from the truck and then in the garage (I hope not to many to begin with).

Thanks,
Bill...
Attachments
AKSS1.jpg
(155.83 KiB) Viewed 39 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
Laid it on its side in the truck
[nepathumb]18566[/nepathumb]
AKSS2.jpg
(98.71 KiB) Viewed 49 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
stoker grate fell out... wondering what that noise was coming from the stove on the way home...lol
[nepathumb]18567[/nepathumb]
AKSS3.jpg
(117.11 KiB) Viewed 34 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
Had to unload it myself so I strapped a dolly to it
[nepathumb]18568[/nepathumb]
AKSS5.jpg
(131.68 KiB) Viewed 30 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
Used part of a ladder to slide it out and down
[nepathumb]18569[/nepathumb]
AKSS7.jpg
(100.79 KiB) Viewed 46 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
Stoker - Blower motor - For some reason or the other the cover is cemented in place
[nepathumb]18570[/nepathumb]
AKSS8.jpg
(130.21 KiB) Viewed 45 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
Electrical connections
[nepathumb]18571[/nepathumb]
AKSS9.jpg
(111.61 KiB) Viewed 45 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
Top blower motor
[nepathumb]18572[/nepathumb]
AKSS10.jpg
(260.4 KiB) Viewed 29 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
Back side of doors
[nepathumb]18573[/nepathumb]
AKSS11.jpg
(309.19 KiB) Viewed 37 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
Top of stoker grate
[nepathumb]18574[/nepathumb]
AKSS12.jpg
(332.53 KiB) Viewed 30 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
Stoker grate bottom with old gasket and cement still on it
[nepathumb]18575[/nepathumb]
cntbill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A70/A90
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Aarrow Astra
Coal Size/Type: Rice to Stove

Re: Need a little advice on an older Kodiak Stoker Stove II

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:09 pm

Bill,

I have one of those babies heating my garage at home. I have had it for 20+ years. Wire brush the loose flakes off the inside. Make sure all of the holes on the grate are clear. If not a 1/8" drill bit works fine. Put a new gasket where the grate sits. Make sure the grate is seated properly. New gaskets on the doors would be a good idea also.

Some here have removed the squirrel cage from the combustion blower and then installed a seperate full time 100% on combustion fan. There should be a rheostat control somewhere that would be used to control the speed of the now dedicated feed motor.

The blower on top of the coal hopper could be hooked up to a rheostat as well or combined with the same rheostat that controls the feed. This blower only blows across the top of the stove to wash the heat off it.


Any other questions, fire away.



Rick
Rick 386
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
Other Heating: Gas fired infared at work

Re: Need a little advice on an older Kodiak Stoker Stove II

PostBy: cntbill On: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:45 pm

Rick 386 wrote:Bill,

I have one of those babies heating my garage at home. I have had it for 20+ years. Wire brush the loose flakes off the inside. Make sure all of the holes on the grate are clear. If not a 1/8" drill bit works fine. Put a new gasket where the grate sits. Make sure the grate is seated properly. New gaskets on the doors would be a good idea also.

Rick


Well I was thinking of firing it up and testing it in the garage, could I get away with that if I connect a few sections of stove pipe and run it out the garage door just to see what happens? As I'm thinking it wouldn't really have much of a draft though. Also I notice that the doors have two layers of rope gaskets, guess the person before me didn't have the right size. What would be the correct size for the top and bottom doors, and also for the grate? Should the grate be cemented in place with furnace cement, besides of course using gasket cement?
cntbill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A70/A90
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Aarrow Astra
Coal Size/Type: Rice to Stove

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: Need a little advice on an older Kodiak Stoker Stove II

PostBy: WNY On: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:50 pm

If the combustion blower and stoker are wired together to a rheostat, plug the combustion blower directly into an outlet, gives you a better burn.

You could always add a Coaltrol to control everything. I updated my old Hyfire I and it runs greats.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Need a little advice on an older Kodiak Stoker Stove II

PostBy: cntbill On: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:13 pm

WNY wrote:If the combustion blower and stoker are wired together to a rheostat, plug the combustion blower directly into an outlet, gives you a better burn.

You could always add a Coaltrol to control everything. I updated my old Hyfire I and it runs greats.


I took the cover off the junction box that is mounted on the side, and all the wires from the motors are connected to the one plug. The stove should run OK the way it is as long as I use that tab to set it? correct? I like the idea of at least the rheostat, but I'm going to have to dig one up. The Coaltrol is tempting but they cost more than twice what I paid for the stove. :shock: But I think once I get this thing going the Coaltrol would be the best bet, I like the idea of using a thermostat, which I believe would work from what I have read.
cntbill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A70/A90
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Aarrow Astra
Coal Size/Type: Rice to Stove

Re: Need a little advice on an older Kodiak Stoker Stove II

PostBy: Whiteash On: Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:56 am

I replaced my rehostat with a "Lutron Light dimmer" 7 years ago. Still works like a top. I think you'll ned a Baro hooked up to your stove pipe. If you put it in your home or garage get a carbon Monoxide detector before running it.
Good luck :roll:
Whiteash
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaskan Stoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Stoker II

Re: Need a little advice on an older Kodiak Stoker Stove II

PostBy: cntbill On: Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:27 am

Whiteash wrote:I replaced my rehostat with a "Lutron Light dimmer" 7 years ago. Still works like a top. I think you'll ned a Baro hooked up to your stove pipe. If you put it in your home or garage get a carbon Monoxide detector before running it.
Good luck :roll:


Which motor are you running with the rheostat or all of them from one rheostat ?

I kinda thought I would need a Baro, and yep got a CO detector ;) ever since installing the VC in the basement. Thanks for the advice.


I found that the convection fan motor seems a bit shot, wire pulled out of the winding and the squirrel cage is kind of messed up a little, but might be able to straighten that out.

Suggestion for a good source for a replacement motor or even the assembly? Also another question, what is the CFM's of that fan?
cntbill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A70/A90
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Aarrow Astra
Coal Size/Type: Rice to Stove

Re: Need a little advice on an older Kodiak Stoker Stove II

PostBy: Pacowy On: Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:39 am

If you're only going to run on the rheostat, I don't think it helps to fix the speed of the combustion air fan by plugging it in directly. If both the air and feed are on the rheostat, you have the opportunity to make whatever minor adjustments may be needed in the feed rate at different rheostat settings to get the 1" ash line at the bottom of the stoker plate that gives the optimum burn. In other words, you can run efficiently (i.e., with a 1" ash line) at high output, low output or anything in between. If you fix the combustion air speed the rheostat will only let you vary how far up the burn plate your ash line forms, which is only going to be efficient at one output level.

Mike

WNY wrote:If the combustion blower and stoker are wired together to a rheostat, plug the combustion blower directly into an outlet, gives you a better burn.

You could always add a Coaltrol to control everything. I updated my old Hyfire I and it runs greats.
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: Need a little advice on an older Kodiak Stoker Stove II

PostBy: cntbill On: Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:20 am

Pacowy wrote:If you're only going to run on the rheostat, I don't think it helps to fix the speed of the combustion air fan by plugging it in directly. If both the air and feed are on the rheostat, you have the opportunity to make whatever minor adjustments may be needed in the feed rate at different rheostat settings to get the 1" ash line at the bottom of the stoker plate that gives the optimum burn. In other words, you can run efficiently (i.e., with a 1" ash line) at high output, low output or anything in between. If you fix the combustion air speed the rheostat will only let you vary how far up the burn plate your ash line forms, which is only going to be efficient at one output level.

Mike

WNY wrote:If the combustion blower and stoker are wired together to a rheostat, plug the combustion blower directly into an outlet, gives you a better burn.

You could always add a Coaltrol to control everything. I updated my old Hyfire I and it runs greats.


So let me see if I understand this. If one rheostat is connected to the combustion fan / feed motor, while you can adjust to an optimum burn rate, that optimum is only good for one level. So then lets say you want a little heat you then adjust the tab, like normal with out having a rheostat, then will you probably Not get that optimum burn without readjusting the rheostat again? So then what I understand, while a rheostat will help the best solution would be what Rick383 mentioned above and add a "separate full time 100% on combustion fan". OK then can someone point me in the right direction to a thread that shows how that is done and what parts to use or at least what is the best search phrase to use?

OK, next question. (Hmmm maybe should be a new thread?) The blower motor on the top, anyone know what the CFM of that motor is supposed to be? The one I have is pretty messed up, the motor is shot, and the squirrel cage is a bit bent, while I might be able to straighten it out the one rubber bushing that the shaft of the motor goes into is also bad. The other thing is that I am not so sure this one is the original one, as there are quite a few holes through the top for rivets holding it in place.. Through an email Alaska told me the assembly would be about $95.00, but I was thinking I might be able to find something for much less. Fan and housing photos below

Thanks,

Bill...
Attachments
AKSS17.jpg
(158.72 KiB) Viewed 18 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
Top of housing with many holes
[nepathumb]18646[/nepathumb]
AKSS16.jpg
(350 KiB) Viewed 20 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
Fan assembly
[nepathumb]18647[/nepathumb]
AKSS19.jpg
(272.91 KiB) Viewed 23 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
Motor
[nepathumb]18648[/nepathumb]
AKSS20.jpg
(297.2 KiB) Viewed 17 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
Motor other side
[nepathumb]18649[/nepathumb]
AKSS18.jpg
(392.21 KiB) Viewed 18 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
Squirrel cage
[nepathumb]18651[/nepathumb]
cntbill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A70/A90
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Aarrow Astra
Coal Size/Type: Rice to Stove

Re: Need a little advice on an older Kodiak Stoker Stove II

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:58 am

$95 is not a bad price for that motor and fan assembly. do a google search for 'electric motor' . I think the place is www.electricmotorwarehouse.com but i'm not sure that that is the right address. Someone,, [WNY] will have the right links for you.

I prefer a higher amount of combustion air than that is supplied when the stoker is turned way down for low heat. If you don't provide enough air to the coal fire, it will not burn the coal very well, leaving unburnt and partially burnt coal on the grate, and getting pushed into the ashpan. The newer style stokers all use a full time combustion fan.. And some manufacturers have retrofit kits to add to their older style stokers [keystoker ].

Do a site search for 'tri-burner' that is the style of your stoker unit.. there are several threads about setting it up to run with a full time combustion blower.

Hope this helps..
Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Need a little advice on an older Kodiak Stoker Stove II

PostBy: Pacowy On: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:26 am

I think cntbill was saying the opposite of what I'm saying. With the feed and the air both on the rheostat, adjusting the rheostat up or down changes the fuel and air supply by similar amounts. You may have to tweak the feed nut to get it exact, but by leaving both on the rheostat you can operate with a 1" ash strip across a wide range of rheostat settings (and stove output levels).

If, instead, you wire the combustion air fan so that it runs full-speed all of the time, there will only be one feed rate that will produce the 1" ash strip. At lower feed rates, the coal will finish burning further up on the grate, and a portion of the air being moved by the combustion fan will be blowing through the ash and (needlessly) cooling the stove.

I agree with Greg that you'll probably get more unburned coal by leaving the combustion air on the rheostat, but I believe you'll make more efficient use of the coal you burn (i.e., get more heat out of your stove) by focusing on the optimum ash strip rather than the unburned coal. Every stoker manual I have ever seen has advised that you should maintain the ash strip for which the stoker was designed. It's understandable that people get concerned when they see unburned coal, but I look at it as being like the unburned gasoline that comes out of the tailpipe of your car even when your engine is tuned for peak efficiency. I've run 2 Alaska stoker stoves on rheostats, and I like the way you can hit a "sweet spot" of heat output at all different levels (compared to the one sweet spot you get with the newer, fixed fan speed models).

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: Need a little advice on an older Kodiak Stoker Stove II

PostBy: cntbill On: Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:03 am

Greg L - Yep that link for the motors is good, did a quick gander on some of the assembly units and the $95 that Alaska wants is a fair price.

Thanks for the search tip, been reading for the last hour...lol

Mike - I think I am starting to get the just of it, slowly understanding the workings. :roll:
From what I am reading and my inexperience with the stoker and even coal for that matter, I think it will be wise when I get this stove set up is to just start out with the one rheostat for the feed and air to get the feel of the stove and take it from there. I didn't get a manual, but I can order one direct from Alaska.. Thanks for the info. The only thing is by the time I get it in place and running the season will be almost over... funny I almost wish it will be cold out longer... :D


Still out of curiosity I'm wondering what the CFM of the blower motor is...

Thanks,
Bill...
cntbill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A70/A90
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Aarrow Astra
Coal Size/Type: Rice to Stove

Re: Need a little advice on an older Kodiak Stoker Stove II

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:24 pm

If the stove is going to be a set it and leave it situation, then you can as Mike stated find the right combingation of feed and air. IF however you are going to set up a thermostat to control room temperature, then the stoker will be going from run to idle fairly often.. and this is where the 'full time' combustion blower works better..
So it sort of depends on what your ultimate goal is for the stove. Lots of automation and thermostatic control.. or find an amount of heat output that satisfies the needs of the room or the house.. and manually adjust it if needed..

Mike is correct in that there are situations where a full time combustion blower at 100% could be too much air, expecially if the needed heat from the stove is low. It depends on how good your chimney drafts, how you set your baro damper or DV, and how much heat you need from the stove.

Once you get a 'feel' for the relationship between coal feed, combustion fan output, stove heat output, you will be able to 'tweak' it to do what you want.. manually.

The best setup is a full time combustion fan, slowed down with a reostat when the stoker is off, then using a relay, whenever the stoker is pushing coal, the combustion fan is on 100%, bypassing the reostat. This way, the stoker's reostat can control feed rate, but anytime the stoker is feeding coal, even at a very slow rate, there is plenty of combustion air to make lots of heat and burn the coal well.. then when the stoker is stopped by the thermostat, the combustion fan is returned to the reostate controled rate,, providing some combustion air to the coal.. instead of the zero combustion air to the coal when the stoker is idle..[this is the way a triburner works, combustion fan on only when the stoker is pushing coal] . This is a fairly complicated setup, not one I'd try to explain in words.. for me it needs hands on.

If You are not going to use a thermostat to control the heat output, then my all means.. fire it up, try teaking the feed rate [stroke of the stoker] and stoker speed. You will soon find out if you like this setup. And find out if you are getting unburnt coal or not.

The flat bed stokers that I owned and ran had separate reostats for the combustion fans, and the stoves worked best when the fan was at 100%, but that is my situation, my coal and my heat needs.. your probably will be different.

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Need a little advice on an older Kodiak Stoker Stove II

PostBy: cntbill On: Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:20 pm

Greg L,

Thanks for the explanation, the relay combination rheostat Idea sounds interesting, and yes defiantly hands on and a bit to complicated just to write out.

Thanks again,

Bill..
cntbill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A70/A90
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Aarrow Astra
Coal Size/Type: Rice to Stove

Re: Need a little advice on an older Kodiak Stoker Stove II

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:01 pm

Bill,

I have my stokerII in the garage at home. I run the combo combustion fan stoker feed on full tilt 24/7. I just adjust the tab in or out to regulate the amount of coal fed. Now granted it is just used for a garage. Right now with the temps we have I am on idle + 1 turn on the tab. It is keeping the garage at 60 - 65*

From idle to full burn is 4-5 turns on the cam lobe depending on which coal I am burning.

I also have a heat jacket on mine that I built myself. The top was made to attach a 8 x 12 duct to it. As it sits in the garage now, it just has a 90* duct elbow blowing straight out the front.

Here is the pic of it.
DSC01104.jpg
(138.16 KiB) Viewed 33 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
Note the blower on either side at the bottom..
[nepathumb]18659[/nepathumb]





Rick
Rick 386
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
Other Heating: Gas fired infared at work

Visit Lehigh Anthracite