Kimmel quality control (not!)

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Kimmel quality control (not!)

PostBy: rberq On: Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:23 pm

I am 10 bags into a new pallet of Kimmels nut. I would estimate 25 per cent of every bag is pea size down to crumbles -- and there are LOTS of crumbles. There is so much little stuff, it seems to choke off the fire when I reload the stove. It used to take about 10 minutes to get burning well after a reload. Now it is more like 45 minutes. Once it is going it is pretty much OK, except it burns more like sub-pea than nut -- hard to get enough air through it. I have upped my draft from .04 to .08 and that helps. But I'm almost to the point of asking the dealer to come and take it back. What's the matter with those Kimmels people, anyhow? The last pallet I burned was great stuff.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Kimmel quality control (not!)

PostBy: Freddy On: Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:15 am

I'd sure be telling the dealer. You should get what you paid for.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: Kimmel quality control (not!)

PostBy: sweeperman On: Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:20 am

The Kimmel nut coal I got from American coal is burning hoter with much less ash then the Blascak nut I started with and better sizing.Maybe it has to do with how the bags are handeld for long distences? :?:
sweeperman
 
Stove/Furnace Make: pine barren
Stove/Furnace Model: coal baron

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Re: Kimmel quality control (not!)

PostBy: rberq On: Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:51 am

Freddy wrote:I'd sure be telling the dealer. You should get what you paid for.

sweeperman wrote:The Kimmel nut coal I got from American coal is burning hotter ...

That's my dilemma. :( I talked to the dealer and they seemed willing to do whatever I want. But once I get past the crumbles, it is burning long and hot and I hate to give it up. I am hopeful that as I get further into the pallet things will improve. One of the bags I opened yesterday was better, not great but better.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Kimmel quality control (not!)

PostBy: Richard S. On: Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:59 am

sweeperman wrote:Maybe it has to do with how the bags are handeld for long distences?


You can break coal in two ways. Either by crushing it which requires considerable force or smashing it off something like other coal. For example if you get bulk delivery as the coal is flowing into the bin it's smashing off the other pieces already in the bin and creates some amount fines. It's not a large amount but every time you move it you create some amount of fines. When I say move that would exclude moving bags around. In my chute example it's the speed of the coal hitting the other pieces that is the important factor there.

Other than a bag of coal getting run over with something improper handling wouldn't be factor. The bag would probably be destroyed long before the coal would get to a really bad condition. It was most likely packed that way.

..Having said that I believe we've covered just about every supplier in the "XXXX Companies coal sucks". The fact is quality will vary from just about any supplier. In a sense it's like playing the lottery but in this lottery you're going to have many winners and just a few losers.

The best thing to do if possible is get bulk in the summer and you greatly increase your chances of getting a very clean, consistent and quality product.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Kimmel quality control (not!)

PostBy: Richard S. On: Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:04 am

rberq wrote: I am hopeful that as I get further into the pallet things will improve. One of the bags I opened yesterday was better, not great but better.


That may be the case... for example if they are using a hopper to fill the bags the coal in the middle of the hopper empties first. If they are continually refilling it without emptying it the coal on the sides will get packed with fines. When it does get low enough for that to start running out you'll get exactly what you describe.

While on the topic if you are getting bulk delivery, especially with the nut or pea don't put one load on top of another. If you have extra each year try and alternate which side of the bin you empty out. After many years if you keep putting one load on top of the other the coal on the bottom will have a very large amount of fines that could be inches deep.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Kimmel quality control (not!)

PostBy: SMITTY On: Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:58 am

My last batch of Kimmels was exactly the same. Was more like pea than nut, with quite a bit of buck & rice mixed. But I also had poor quality to go with it. It burned hot, but was gone in 12 hours flat, with an overflowing ashpan.

The Blaschak I have now is only pea sized in the bags that were on the bottom of the pallet. 85% of it is normal nut sized. Burns better too, with less ash ... unlike the load sweeperman got.

Next year I'm buying 2 bags from every local dealer for testing purposes before I commit to a large purchase. :idea:
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Kimmel quality control (not!)

PostBy: rberq On: Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:31 pm

SMITTY wrote:Next year I'm buying 2 bags from every local dealer for testing purposes before I commit to a large purchase. :idea:

It won't help you to do that, if it can vary so much from and pallet to pallet.

How many local dealers do you have? We have only three -- two sell Kimmels, one sells Blaschak but they are a**holes. Only one of the three will come with a pallet jack and place the pallets right where I want them inside the garage. The Blaschak dealer will deliver however many bags you want, in a DUMP TRUCK, which he then DUMPS and you are free to scoop up the broken bags at your leisure.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Kimmel quality control (not!)

PostBy: Paulie On: Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:04 pm

There are many variables in the processing of bulk coal. Then to bag it adds a bunch more! If you buy direct, get it in the
summer. If you buy from a dealer, see if he will sell you from the earliest delivery of the season. That should cut back on some
of the variables, but even so........
Paulie
 
Stove/Furnace Make: leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: Kimmel quality control (not!)

PostBy: Blackdiamonddoug On: Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:14 pm

My neighbor only buys baged coal with Santa claues one the lable.
He was watching me load my bulk from the outside bin to the inside bin he said the bulk coal is much more uniform compaired to what he gets in the bags.
BDD
Blackdiamonddoug
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axemen 260 rebuilt by Matt
Stove/Furnace Model: stoker AA 260

Re: Kimmel quality control (not!)

PostBy: crazy4coal On: Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:44 pm

I'am gonna put my 2 cents in here. I'am into my 2nd year as a dealer for Kimmel's and the rice that I have was bagged in early Aug. and I had some leftover from last year. There is a differance between the two. All of the rice I have now came from the same truck load and some pallets are damp and some so wet that they are frozen soild. The pea was nice sized and pretty clean. I have another load coming this week with nut, pea and rice on it and will be my last load till july or Aug. In the summer when the breakers are slow and the rains stay away the coal comes out very clean and uniform but, in the winter when the temp drops the coal starts freezing and the fines stick instead of being washed away. This year I will have almost all of next winters coal in before the end of Sept.
crazy4coal
 
Stove/Furnace Make: buderus
Stove/Furnace Model: logana

Re: Kimmel quality control (not!)

PostBy: 2001Sierra On: Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:53 pm

Myself and 2 friends purchased a trailer load of Kimmel rice, and nut. We took delivery in August. Size and quality has been consistent. Red ash, and yes some bags are wetter than others. No complaints, burning in a Keystoker 90, and a Harman Boiler. Third friend has a Harman hand fed, and is doing well with the nut that was supplied as well. I hear Kimmel has a new mine, do not know if this will help.
2001Sierra
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90 Chimney vent
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Buderus Oil Boiler 3115-34
Stove/Furnace Model: Keystoker 90 Chimney Vent

Re: Kimmel quality control (not!)

PostBy: SMITTY On: Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:14 pm

rberq wrote: .....It won't help you to do that, if it can vary so much from and pallet to pallet.

How many local dealers do you have? .......

I don't think it really varies much pallet to pallet ... it seems to be more load to load, or season to season. We have 4 "local" dealers ... now when I say local, it runs the gamut between 10 miles & 50 miles from my house. My father bought his load of Kimmels this year from the same place I got the crappy load from last year. He seems to be experiencing the same quality issues. He's had several unexplained outfires so far this season, with short burn times & lots of ash. He was supposed to come over today so I could bring him to my current dealer so he could test the Blaschak I've been raving about .... but that's another story for another day (spent day at dealership ... :roll: ). I bought 4 pallets from this current dealer, & they are all identical. The real test will be next seasons load.
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Kimmel quality control (not!)

PostBy: rberq On: Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:22 pm

SMITTY wrote:
rberq wrote: .....It won't help you to do that, if it can vary so much from and pallet to pallet.

I don't think it really varies much pallet to pallet ... it seems to be more load to load, or season to season.

Perhaps you are right. The last pallet I burned was purchased almost three years ago. It was just stuck off in the corner of my garage as my fallback in case I misjudged my current needs. It was noticeably different coal from the new-this-year pallet. I have another pallet also purchased new this year. I will tear into that tomorrow and see if it matches the one I'm complaining about.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Kimmel quality control (not!)

PostBy: rberq On: Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:21 pm

Update: I screened one bag of the bad and got a tremendous quantity of fines, even though a lot of the pea-size stuff, which also should not be in a bag of nut, didn't go through my screen. Took the screenings to the dealer as evidence. He is coming this week to pick up the remaining 34 bags on the pallet, and the distributor is taking it back from the dealer. Dealer tried to get the distributor to just give me credit for the pallet, to save everybody the trouble of transporting it back, but the distributor wouldn't go for that. Too bad -- for almost a ton of free coal, I would have been willing to set up a more elaborate screening operation.

The second pallet I bought is very good, even though it was delivered the same time as the bad pallet. I'm still pretty happy with Kimmel overall. I have burned perhaps 12 pallets so far, and this is the first really bad luck I have had.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

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