Refurbishing a Salvo Citation

Re: Refurbishing a Salvo Citation

PostBy: spiker On: Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:24 pm

With the gusty wind last night, I ran the stove a bit hotter, even though outside temps were not bad, around 40. I have been burning mostly pea and running 300-350 with the recent mild weather. I loaded all nut and gave it some more air last night and got it to 450. That was the temp when I checked on it at 1 am, then I reduced the air and by morning it was back to 350 and the house was at 68. The coal looked more used up than when I was running it cooler, not surprisingly.

I took some temperatures with my laser thermometer while the stove was at the higher temp and thought I would share them, not that anything was a problem:

450 stove top, single walled area
200 chimney pipe
300 heat exchanger exit (convective heat flow-blower not running)
700 metal around fire box
450 underside of grates

I was surprised that the grates were not running hotter, the ash layer and air flow keep that in check more than I expected.

The wind probably increased my draft a lot, it would have been a good night to see a damper in action, and to gain the added efficiency.
spiker
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Salvo
Stove/Furnace Model: Citation

Re: Refurbishing a Salvo Citation

PostBy: rberq On: Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:16 pm

spiker wrote:... 200 chimney pipe ... it would have been a good night to see a damper in action, and to gain the added efficiency.

Yes, 200 on the chimney pipe [surface] equates to perhaps 360 in the interior of the pipe, which is high. Do I recall you saying the baro is not yet installed?
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Refurbishing a Salvo Citation

PostBy: spiker On: Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:45 pm

That is correct, I do not have the baro yet. I located a FC RC at my local plumbing supply, and I have the T in place and capped. I knew it would be a lot of work to get the stove installed, so I waited on the baro. Also, I don't have a manometer to set it and last I knew the loaner program was on hold due to theft. I keep reading that the baro settings are not accurate.

The 200 F measurement was at the end of the T 10 inches from the stove back, where it joins the vertical sections.
spiker
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Salvo
Stove/Furnace Model: Citation

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Re: Refurbishing a Salvo Citation

PostBy: LsFarm On: Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:32 pm

The rough baro settings are not real accurate, but they will get you in 'the ballpark'. Having an exact setting is fine when you are fine tuning your burn and coal consumption, but not necessary all the time..

What the Baro will do, is on a night like you described, with strong gusty winds, you won't have lots of heat being pulled up the chimney, and your coal burn rate will be steady.

I'd install the baro, set it at .04, and see how it affects your burn rate, consistancy and flue temps. You can keep an eye on Ebay for a Dwyer Model 25 or a Magnehelic draft gauge.

Greg L

.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Refurbishing a Salvo Citation

PostBy: dlj On: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:09 pm

Spiker,

Congrads on getting your stove up and running! Looks great and I hope you enjoy it. My house is so much warmer running coal heat there is just no comparision...

As far as the baro intallation, I will look forward to seeing how you feel it works. I'm still on the fence about putting one in, especially with my old stove. I don't notice any variations due to hot or cold weather, windy or calm as far as how well my stove heats the house or uses coal. It just seems run nice and constant all the time, just depends upon where I have my manual damper set and my air feeds, how much heat it kicks out and how fast it burns. But I've been thinking of putting one in just to see if I can notice anything since so many here seem to think it makes the stoves run better.

dj
dlj
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Castings Resolute
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Baseheater #6
Coal Size/Type: Stove coal
Other Heating: Oil Furnace, electric space heaters

Re: Refurbishing a Salvo Citation

PostBy: coal berner On: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:18 pm

dlj wrote:Spiker,

Congrads on getting your stove up and running! Looks great and I hope you enjoy it. My house is so much warmer running coal heat there is just no comparision...

As far as the baro intallation, I will look forward to seeing how you feel it works. I'm still on the fence about putting one in, especially with my old stove. I don't notice any variations due to hot or cold weather, windy or calm as far as how well my stove heats the house or uses coal. It just seems run nice and constant all the time, just depends upon where I have my manual damper set and my air feeds, how much heat it kicks out and how fast it burns. But I've been thinking of putting one in just to see if I can notice anything since so many here seem to think it makes the stoves run better.

dj

Don't think Know in a air tight Stove Yes in a old cast iron or metal non air tight stove you will not see anything being you would be losing air from all around the stove There is a good reason why the stove companies recommend using one on there stoves
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: Refurbishing a Salvo Citation

PostBy: spiker On: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:58 pm

So I have been running it with a 1/2 in rope gasket along the front of the grates. I tried it without and the fire started to cool off. I suppose I could adjust the air intake, but I liked the way it was running w the gasket, so went back to it. Maybe I'll try again w/o it on a weekend when I can watch the stove closer.

coal berner pointed out that the air gap would help air wash the glass, keep it cooler and help avoid developing a haze on the glass. That got me researching and I discovered that most users find the glass becoming cloudy within a few seasons of burning coal. It sounds like the fly ash can etch the ceramic with acid and gradually cause a hazy finish. I am using Rutland Conditioning Glass Cleaner, it claims to leave a silicone residue on the glass to protect it. Then I use an old sock to brush off the ash that settles on the glass when I shake the ashes down. I was thinking maybe I would sprinkle some baking soda on the sock to help neutralize the acid in the process of wiping it down. Long time users say it is a lost cause, but I can't help trying.

I am at 6 days and counting, with not even a hint of loosing the fire. The weather has been mild for late February, so I have not had to push it. I have run the stove around 350 F most of the week, keeping the house around 69 F. I estimate my coal use at 25#/day so far, and I believe my propane heater has barely run at all during that time. The heat exchange blower is a very nice feature. It raises the room temp in a matter of minutes.
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Rope gasket along front of grates
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spiker
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Salvo
Stove/Furnace Model: Citation

Re: Refurbishing a Salvo Citation

PostBy: dlj On: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:58 pm

coal berner wrote:Don't think Know in a air tight Stove Yes in a old cast iron or metal non air tight stove you will not see anything being you would be losing air from all around the stove There is a good reason why the stove companies recommend using one on there stoves


Coalberner,

Sorry, can you restate this? I'm not following exactly what you are trying to say...

dj
dlj
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Castings Resolute
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Baseheater #6
Coal Size/Type: Stove coal
Other Heating: Oil Furnace, electric space heaters

Re: Refurbishing a Salvo Citation

PostBy: wsherrick On: Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:55 pm

dlj wrote:
coal berner wrote:Don't think Know in a air tight Stove Yes in a old cast iron or metal non air tight stove you will not see anything being you would be losing air from all around the stove There is a good reason why the stove companies recommend using one on there stoves


Coalberner,

Sorry, can you restate this? I'm not following exactly what you are trying to say...

dj


Dj: If I understand correctly; he is assuming that the Glenwood is not airtight so you can't tell how the chimney draft is affecting the stove. My Glenwood is totally airtight and I assume since you just had yours restored, it is airtight also.
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: Refurbishing a Salvo Citation

PostBy: dlj On: Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:10 pm

wsherrick wrote:
dlj wrote:
coal berner wrote:Don't think Know in a air tight Stove Yes in a old cast iron or metal non air tight stove you will not see anything being you would be losing air from all around the stove There is a good reason why the stove companies recommend using one on there stoves


Coalberner,

Sorry, can you restate this? I'm not following exactly what you are trying to say...

dj


Dj: If I understand correctly; he is assuming that the Glenwood is not airtight so you can't tell how the chimney draft is affecting the stove. My Glenwood is totally airtight and I assume since you just had yours restored, it is airtight also.


I'd say my Glenwood is pretty tight. So is the point if you are running an airtight stove it makes more of a difference to run a baro but if you aren't it doesn't matter?

dj
dlj
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Castings Resolute
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Baseheater #6
Coal Size/Type: Stove coal
Other Heating: Oil Furnace, electric space heaters

Re: Refurbishing a Salvo Citation

PostBy: spiker On: Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:59 pm

So I came somewhat close to loosing my fire today. I can home from work and the left side had died, the right was burning normally. I had noticed that the left was burning faster than the right over the last day or so, not sure why, the only difference I can think of is when I open the ash door, it hinges on the right and so more air can enter on the left, but I figured once in the ash area the air would even out under the grates.

The ash tray was full, but that does not put it close to the grates, so the left was not choked off from below. The left side was mostly burned up w crumbly pieces, so it burned out rather than starved for air. I had been trying to not shake the ashes as much, because I read in the forum that a rookie mistake was to be over eager to shake down the fire.

The weather last night and today was windy, and I do not have a damper installed yet, so the draft was definitely stronger than usual. I did buy a barometric damper today and plan to install it tomorrow. Even more urgency now.

There was a solid fire on the right, and so I was able to save the fire. I pampered the the fire on the right, shoveled out most of the ashes on the left, and gradually spread the burning coals over the whole fire bed. Temps have recovered from around 230 to a more healthy 300 now, with a full active fire bed.

I am trying some new coal, Reading pea that I am testing out. I seems to burn fine, and should not be related to one side uneven burn.

Interesting lesson, but the root cause escapes me. If I see one side is burning stronger than the other, is there a standard action to take to avoid burning out one side?
Last edited by spiker on Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
spiker
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Salvo
Stove/Furnace Model: Citation

Re: Refurbishing a Salvo Citation

PostBy: coalvet On: Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:21 pm

Spiker

I don't think you have any problems, it sounds like just a case of ash build up. Don't worry about it happening to one side just make sure the entire grate area is clear when you shake down. Usually once in the morning and again in the evening should be enough.

Rich
coalvet
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane Model 404
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: NG Boiler

Re: Refurbishing a Salvo Citation

PostBy: Jst a Vtr On: Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:50 pm

I have had this happen to my stove on either side on occasion. Since the stove has two slide drafts on the ash pan door I figured that I may have had one open more than another as I have opened one more than the other as needed to get the fire evened out when starting. Also have you noticed that when you slide the draft the slotted openings are larger on the outside than toward the center. My center slots can be just closed and still have 1/8 inch opening on the outside. I would assume(at least on my stove) that they were made that way. Have also noted the slides are not that tight and have even idled my stove with them closed.
I any case I don't think there is any thing wrong with the stove as the coal burned. The damper in the stove pipe should help alot.
Bill
Jst a Vtr
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Salvo citation, modified as an add on forced hot air
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Duo-matic/Olsen (In workshop)
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut
Other Heating: Oil fired hot air

Re: Refurbishing a Salvo Citation

PostBy: spiker On: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:08 pm

Thanks for the replies. Bill, my air inlets work just as you describe. I have never closed them down completely, because this time of year I still want plenty of heat.

I try to shake the fire down until I see red under most of the grate area, but I stop when I feel unburned coal starting to jam the grates. Usually I can try shaking an hour later and it clears up. I don't always have time for that in the morning before work.

Maybe with a more controlled draft, I'll have time to catch this situation before one side goes completely dead.
spiker
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Salvo
Stove/Furnace Model: Citation

Re: Refurbishing a Salvo Citation

PostBy: spiker On: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:46 pm

I figured out the problem. There was ash built up on one side and it would not drop with just shaking. I poked though an access port on the metal front and stirred up the ashes under the coals. That freed them up and I could get both sides to shake down evenly. Once I thought it through, the answer became clear. The fire is back to an even burn over the whole fire bed. Running it very low today because the weather is so nice.

Installed the barometric damper. It went smoothly because the T was already in place for it. Moved the stove out of the fireplace opening a bit and swapped the damper for the cap I had in the T opening. Got it plumb with a small level and set it for .04. When my wife opens the outside door, the damper swings, so I guess we have done a good job weatherstripping the house. Next windy day we'll see how it performs, and what kind of stack temps we get.

I plan to burn some wood in the spring, so then I will pull the damper back out and replace it with the cap. I want my cake and eat it too.

I made the trip to Coventry, RI and bought 2 bags of the Kimmel nut. Mike, the seller, got a trailer shipment in bulk, burns it in his shop and at home, and is selling it at 250/ton bulk picked up, or 7$/40# bagged. It was not as good a deal as I hoped, although the drive is not bad, 35 min from my house. I am burning some now, we'll see how it does. Looked just like any other nut size coal.

What I really want to find is bagged at less that 300$/ton, and within 30 minutes of home. I have not found that deal yet. The most convenient so far is 300$/ton bagged at Agway in my home town of Westerly. That is my default option if nothing better comes along.
spiker
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Salvo
Stove/Furnace Model: Citation

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