red ash or white ash

PostBy: Yanche On: Thu May 03, 2007 9:31 am

Given the stated differences between red and white ash coal would the following make sense? I have a stoker boiler that also provides domestic hot water. In summer I should burn only white ash because of it's lower Btu value and it's less likely to form clinkers. The logic is high Btu's are not needed because I'm only using a small fraction of the boiler capacity and the biggest summer issue is avoiding clinkers. In the winter I would want to burn red ash because it's higher Btu value, or a blend of red and white ash to avoid clinkers. Given a lump of coal is there any way to tell if it's red or white ash? How does a coal miner know what he is mining? Is red vs. white due to geographic location? Can both red and white be present in the same mine?
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

PostBy: LsFarm On: Thu May 03, 2007 10:38 am

Hi Yanche, most of the red ash coal I have burnt had about 10-15% of the pieces had rust-colored spots on them. The Reading Anthracite bags even state that it is 'marked with red' so you know you are getting Reading Anthracite. I laughed at this, 'cause they can't mine it and sell it without the red marks. The red is Iron Oxide I'm assuming.

the Blaschak coal did not have any red spots. I'll try to get a photo or two.

Greg L

.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Reading Anthracite Coal

PostBy: BigBarney On: Thu May 03, 2007 11:39 am

In years past all of Readings coal had the red spots on them as a

trademark to identify the original product.It was a red lead paint

splashed on the coal at the breaker,when lead paints were outlawed they

stopped marking the coal,maybe even before.

I remember as a kid seeing the red dots on the coal.Maybe even other

coal suppliers marked their coal the same way?Could be Blue coal had

blue dots on it as a trademark.


BigBarney
BigBarney
 


PostBy: coal berner On: Thu May 03, 2007 3:25 pm

Yanche wrote:Given the stated differences between red and white ash coal would the following make sense? I have a stoker boiler that also provides domestic hot water. In summer I should burn only white ash because of it's lower Btu value and it's less likely to form clinkers. The logic is high Btu's are not needed because I'm only using a small fraction of the boiler capacity and the biggest summer issue is avoiding clinkers. In the winter I would want to burn red ash because it's higher Btu value, or a blend of red and white ash to avoid clinkers. Given a lump of coal is there any way to tell if it's red or white ash? How does a coal miner know what he is mining? Is red vs. white due to geographic location? Can both red and white be present in the same mine?
yanche when you come up in june i will show you both i burn red ash from 2 mines one gives a little clinkers the other will burn to powder i like red for the extra b.t.u. i will keep some ash for you to see the one that makes clinkers has a little more iron in it it all depends what vein they in the one with clinkers burns hotter they are small and soft you brake then in your hand come up and you will see no worries with any i take you to :)
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re:

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:13 pm

Yanche wrote:I've finally tracked down some info about red ash coal, at least where the term may have come from. The U.S. Geological Survey has named all the coal fields in the US. There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of names. The Pennsylvania BUREAU OF TOPOGRAPHIC AND GEOLOGIC SURVEY lists coal veins in Luzerne and Lackawanna counties as Red Ash, Lower Red Ash, Middle Red Ash, or Upper Red Ash. See complete description in the Appendix of "COAL IN PENNSYLVANIA", available at: http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/topogeo/edu ... al/es7.pdf


I just finished reading the attached file and found it interesting, so I thought I'd bump it up so those who haven't seen it could look it over.

John
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: red ash or white ash

PostBy: coalstoves On: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:36 pm

If you enjoyed that booklet as much as I did you will love this book

Anthracite Coal
Haine. Edgar A.
Chicago: Adams Press, 1987

It can be found in most public libraries and is a great read .
coalstoves
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman and Liberty
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnum and Victory 700

Re: red ash or white ash

PostBy: Berlin On: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:53 am

generally as greg said, you'll se more rust present on the coal, as well as more iron pyrite (fools gold) in the coal, some dark red ash northern missouri coals have 1/8" or larger pyrite bands through them although this would not be present in such a large manner even with red ash anthracite due to the high sulfur content it requires; some of those missouri coals were pushing 8% or higher sulfur, which is why coal mining is virtually nonexistant in northern missouri currently.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: red ash or white ash

PostBy: coal-cooker On: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:50 am

The red ash seams to have a lot more iron in it. I burn both red and white and have noticed that if you get the red too hot it actually will fuse to the fire brick in the stove. A couple of times I have gotten it too hot and still have clumps that are so bonded to the fire brick I can not remove them without fear of breacking the brick. I also get more clinkers when burning the red ash with some of them showing clearly melted metal globes. I have not noticed much of a BTU difference in them, but it is easier to light and to over heat with red since it seams to burn faster. I have to reduce the draft settings on my stove a bit with red to prevent it from burning too fast.
coal-cooker
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Crane/Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Coal Cooker/Mark II

Re: red ash or white ash

PostBy: coal berner On: Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:52 am

Here are a few veins of coal that will give you red ash and the ones that will give you white and some of them will have both when I have more time I will list all of them As far as the yellow marks on the coal you will get that from any of the veins of coal that is where the coal was laying against the shale or rock shell that is around the coal vein like when they scape the sides top or bottom of the vein you will see it with strippiong coal or deep mine white or red ash coal The
red ash coal vein as more iron in it when the coal was formed it just depends on what area the vein of coal comes from and how much Iron was in the area at the time it was formed Millions of years ago Nothing more However the red ash coal will give you more BTU's Per lb thats been Tested from the time they started mining coal most red ash coal is in the Southern to middle Anthracite field Here are a few there are 6 or more that I can't think of right now will add later to sleepy right now going to bed if you would like you can look at the two links at the bottom of the Page and see who is in what vein of coal Also red ash coal with high iron content will clinker However any coal red or white ash will clinker if the ash content is below 4 % ash content it will not burn clean just clinker up That's why the breakers will mix in the coal dirt to get the ash content up so the coal will burn and not just clinker up I know of one breaker that was pulling coal out at 2 1/2 % ash content they had to add coal dirt back in it to get it up to 7 to 8 or 9 % to make it burn If you don't believe Just ask a coal miner next time you see one Thats how I know

Red ASH Coal veins

Primrose

Lykens # 1 threw # 7 will have both

Buckmountain

Orchard

upper red ash

middle red ash

Holems

White AsH coal veins

Mammoth top split
middle split top & bottom
bottom split middle botom

skidmore

Upper skidmore

Middel skidmore

lower skidmore

Seven foot

Rough

lower four foot

Diamond

little Diamond

Tracy

little Tracy


http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/minres/bmr/annualreport/2006/table04_anthracite_underground.htm
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.



http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/minres/bmr/annualreport/2006/table05_anthracite_surface.htm
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: red ash or white ash

PostBy: e.alleg On: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:47 pm

I just got a load of red ash a few weeks back, it definitely has less ash than the white ash "santa-clause bags" Blaschak I was burning. The BTU's are impossible to tell the difference between the red ash and the Blaschak because it hasn't really been that cold. Both burn the same and look the same in the bag, impossible to tell the difference by looks. The only difference I can find is the red ash has about 5% ash vs the white ash Blaschak has about 15%, I like the low ash - that means in the summer I can go a week or more without touching the ash pan. They both cost the same too. Clinkers are a non issue in the EFM, the ash falls off the pot so it can make softballs as far as I care.
e.alleg
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

Re: red ash or white ash

PostBy: coal berner On: Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:56 am

e.alleg wrote:I just got a load of red ash a few weeks back, it definitely has less ash than the white ash "santa-clause bags" Blaschak I was burning. The BTU's are impossible to tell the difference between the red ash and the Blaschak because it hasn't really been that cold. Both burn the same and look the same in the bag, impossible to tell the difference by looks. The only difference I can find is the red ash has about 5% ash vs the white ash Blaschak has about 15%, I like the low ash - that means in the summer I can go a week or more without touching the ash pan. They both cost the same too. Clinkers are a non issue in the EFM, the ash falls off the pot so it can make softballs as far as I care.
5 % ash ed did you see a report from the breaker that the coal came from Because the lowest ash that you can get is at UAE Harmony mine that is Deep mine red ash Running 7 % right now I don't know of any red or white ash Anthracite coal running 5% in any of the Anthracite fieds in PA and expcelly Red ash most of it is in the southern field to the middel field
where I live and I know of Nunn of the red ash coal veins running that low in ash content when it is processed at the breaker it can be that low when it comes out of the ground or even lower but once it is processed at the breaker it will not be that low any more do you know where the coal came from because I will go and get a ash content report from the breaker where the coal came from or are you doing the weighing of the coal and ash yourself I do this with a hand fed stove not hard to do But with a stoker it is hard to keep up with your coal unless you weigh
every bucket of coal that you put in the drum and them weigh the ash coming out and to do this right you will need to burn a ton of coal then weigh all of the ash that you get from that ton of coal also sifted threw the ash and pull out all of the unburnd coal and then reweigh the ash put the unburnd coal back in and burn it again any coal that is 5% and under
will not burn right it will Just clinker up That is why the breaker add more coal dirt back into the coal so it will get the ash content up so it will burn to low of ash content is no good it might sound great but real low ash coal will not burn right that is why most good coal runs between 8 to 12% but there are exceptions to ever rule I really would like to know where that coal came from see if you can find out and let me know :)
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: red ash or white ash

PostBy: e.alleg On: Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:33 pm

JC it might be 7 or 8%, I use a very unscientific method. I dump 3 50# bags in when the hopper needs it, then I take out the ash pan. If it's full to the top I figure that's about 15% ash. If it's 1/2 full that will be 10%, if it's less than 1/2 full I say 5%. It gets tricky because some ash will stay on the pot and some will collect along the sides on the rail on the ash pan guide, so to be exact I should clean out all the ash and start from square one. It isn't really that important to me the actual number, just a comparison from one dealer or load of coal to the next so I can decide who to stock up with.
e.alleg
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

Re: red ash or white ash

PostBy: coal berner On: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:36 pm

Ok Ed like I said it is hard to do with a stoker / boiler because of what you stated 7 to 8% is a good ash % for Red ash
most Red ash runs from 10 to 14% but like I said There are some that will run lower & higher UAE would be on the
Low end it use to be 5 to 6% now it is Running 7 to 8% still is Pretty good Suoerior is running 12.4 % on there Barley Rice buck 14% on there Pea Nut Stove But there coal Puts out more BTU's then anyone else so I don't mind the higher ash You need a trailer and come down and get a few tons you will like it and I can take you to a few other's so you can burn a few different ones to se what you like best talk to you later ;)
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: red ash or white ash

PostBy: BigBarney On: Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:42 pm

How low of ash are the sizes like pea,nut and stove?

These should be extremely low considering that the rice is that low.


Thank you BigBarney
BigBarney
 

Re: red ash or white ash

PostBy: spaserg On: Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:02 pm

Hi! Coalbin attached description from HARMAN, which is true. I used Reading ( as dealer told) coal with red klinkers (about 20-25%) and "too hard to shake" moments and other coal with white ash from another dealer( unfortunately lost info!!!), White ash coal burns longer, much less ashes (10% i believe ) and easy to shake grates.Coal yard was in Parsippany NJ.
spaserg
 
Stove/Furnace Make: mark III