Who caused this DEPRESSION Bush or Obama

Re: Who caused this DEPRESSION Bush or Obama

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:46 am

No no no!

Keep your eye on the ball!

Keynesianism is the problem!
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Re: Who caused this DEPRESSION Bush or Obama

PostBy: franco b On: Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:16 am

That it was caused by government there is little doubt.

What bothers me is that the Fed and the Treasury are chockablock full of economists and the President has economic advisers. Why did they not see this coming years ago? Is it incompetence, stupidity, corruption or something else? Does blind political ideology allow you to destroy your country? Why don't they know what the simplest mortgage officer in the smallest bank knows.

How many degrees in economics does it take to realize that when you lower the price of a product (mortgages) sales go up. When sales go up demand increases the price(the house). So instead of being affordable which they would have been if government had kept it's stupid hands off we have this mess. And now we have to trust the same morons to fix it.
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Re: Who caused this DEPRESSION Bush or Obama

PostBy: samhill On: Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:31 am

Franco, your correct in a lot of what you said IMO, except that you stopped a bit short with the blame. The real estate industry & the average Joe or Jane that have a income that just barely qualifies them for a good used car allow some slick talking agent to convince them that there would be no problem & they could truly afford a McMansion. Then the agent & Co. walk away with their check & look for the next fool. Together between the Gov., banking & Reality Industry, Joe & Jane the builders & everyone else trying to make the easy greedy buck turned the great American dream into a nightmare.
I`m sure like a lot of things when ideas start there are some good intentions but human greed turns & changes most of these for monetary benefit.
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Re: Who caused this DEPRESSION Bush or Obama

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:21 am

Fred, I think you have a different concept of economics than the government.

Like a rational thinking person, you seem to believe that economics would be the study of what produces a solid, stable system.

This is where you are wrong. ;)

Economics in use today, devised by guys like Keynes, is the study of what produces a desired outcome.

The government wants what it wants. It can't possibly tax us enough to get what it wants so it comes up with schemes like fiat money, the idea that a scrap of paper has value because the government said so and forces everyone to accept it as true, and fractional reserve banking, the idea that if you have $100 in your pocket, you can loan out $1000.

It allows the government to build an empire around the world. The first guy who really popularized fiat money was Ghengis Kahn. He was running out of gold so he would just write an amount on a piece of paper and sign it and if you didn't accept he'd cut your head off.

And it also allows government to keep people fat, dumb and lazy through welfare programs. Like the Roman "Bread&Circus" program where you got something to eat and a show at the Colosseum to prevent you from noticing that the empire was crumbling until the barbarians were at the gates.

I suggest that we are out of "money", the barbarians are at the gates, and the government is offering us "stimulus" and the complicit news outlets provide great entertainment in offering up politicians to "slaughter" with blame.
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Re: Who caused this DEPRESSION Bush or Obama

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:40 am

I'm digging in the history part of my brain,which does much better then the short term--one project where the people got really screwed,I beleive,was Lewis & Clark,when they were doing a govt. job and,I think Clark,wrote a bunch of chits for supplies to keep his expidetion alive & then was denied payment---he died a broken old man,but he did still have his friends up till the end---maybe??? that's what we have to look fwd. too???Don't know for a fact,but,I hope the govt. at least buried him??Oh,I guess I have that coming too :D
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Re: Who caused this DEPRESSION Bush or Obama

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:44 am

I would think the mess we have now started with Lyndon Johnson and has snowballed ever since. It looks a lot closer to the bottom of the hill in the last year though. :shock:
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Re: Who caused this DEPRESSION Bush or Obama

PostBy: KLook On: Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:43 am

I think LBJ just threw gasoline on the fire.

kevin
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Re: Who caused this DEPRESSION Bush or Obama

PostBy: topper On: Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:47 am

blame whatever party, theory, etc. that you want - but don't forget about the impact of the banking industry.

what percentage of the toxic assets do you own?
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Re: Who caused this DEPRESSION Bush or Obama

PostBy: samhill On: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:06 am

I think the biggest part of the problem is everyone blames the other but no one accepts any responsibility. Thats probably why the Gov. likes a two party system you only need one hand to point out the problem while the other has its palm getting greased.
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Re: Who caused this DEPRESSION Bush or Obama

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:57 pm

jpete wrote:So it's ONLY the democrats fault?

That's dishonest.



Hell no! I didn't say that.

mikeandgerry wrote:
but they also planted the seeds for political manipulation by both parties which led to our current state of affairs.
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Re: Who caused this DEPRESSION Bush or Obama

PostBy: gerard On: Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:01 pm

jpete wrote:So it's ONLY the democrats fault?

That's dishonest.

I seem to recall GWB crowing about the highest percentage of home ownership in history when he was on the campaign trail.

It's not like the D's pulled a fast one. The R's were complicit because it met their re election goals.

And the root cause is still fiat money and fractional reserve banking. In a word, Keynesianism.

Not quite jpete. The community reinvestment act (started by Jimmy Carter and expanded under Clinton), was mainly the work of the dems. (Barney Frank, Chriss Dodd, Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac). The Bush administration tried on at least two separate occasions to reign them in. (There's CNN footage on youtube of Barney Frank being questioned on the topic, denying there were any problems on the horizon). While I don't doubt Bush tried taking some credit for hoe ownership as you stated, he was only guility of not being able to undo the circumstances put in motion by the dems. Now lets be real, when times were good, the market was going up, and home prices were making everyone rich on paper, who the hell was going to be listened to saying bad things were a comin' ? Had government not created a market for junk mortgages thru fannie and freddie, the housing market never would have risen as quickly and we would have been stuck with long, slow, boring growth (a good thing!).

It's not that complicated. Have a bunch of people by houses they can't afford and as soon as the economy burps the house of cards comes tumbling down.
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Re: Who caused this DEPRESSION Bush or Obama

PostBy: gerard On: Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:02 pm

JohnMck wrote:The liberals, under the Community Reinvestment Act, forced banks and lenders to back Sub Prime mortgages, to people who could never pay them
. These were sold as bundled securities,by firms like Bear-Sterns and Lehman Brothers, which became worthless when the people getting these mortgages defaulted.
I remember watching Bill Clinton and Barney Frank, years ago, touting the CRA as a way to promote home ownership among minorities. This fueled the housing market, and caused the housing bubble, that has since collapsed.The signs were all there, but the Democrats running Congress for the last two years of the Bush Administration, refused to take any action.
Once again, government intervention in private markets caused all this trouble.
That's the way I see it.


Oh, wait, I'm supposed to say that it's all George Bush's fault.


FINALLY! Someone gets it. Good post. The only thing you left out was that Bush tried on more than two occasions to reign in fannie and freddie and was shut down by barney frank and friends.
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Re: Who caused this DEPRESSION Bush or Obama

PostBy: gerard On: Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:07 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM&NR=1

The attached link shows some footage re the housing mess barney frank et al.

Libs - please don't let the facts change your views
Last edited by gerard on Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who caused this DEPRESSION Bush or Obama

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:11 pm

gerard wrote: While I don't doubt Bush tried taking some credit for hoe ownership as you stated, he was only guility of not being able to undo the circumstances put in motion by the dems


What did he do to try? Anything? Did he not have a majority in Congress where he could have done anything he wanted? Hell, he DID do anything he wanted. He just didn't want to fix the real problems.

gerard wrote:Now lets be real, when times were good, the market was going up, and home prices were making everyone rich on paper, who the hell was going to be listened to saying bad things were a comin' ?


I know a few guys. Here's one. And they laughed at him. Oh yeah, and he's running for Congress in Connecticut. :D

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Re: Who caused this DEPRESSION Bush or Obama

PostBy: gerard On: Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:20 pm

jpete wrote:
gerard wrote: While I don't doubt Bush tried taking some credit for hoe ownership as you stated, he was only guility of not being able to undo the circumstances put in motion by the dems


What did he do to try? Anything? Did he not have a majority in Congress where he could have done anything he wanted? Hell, he DID do anything he wanted. He just didn't want to fix the real problems.

Watch the footage I posted. There's also quite a bit more out there regarding the same thing. Even if a president has a majority in congress, he can't just do whatever he wants. (See current health care reform morass even with a super majority), so that position is a bit disingenuous jpete, but as I said, I don't expect facts to get in the way. I'm not a Bush fan by any stretch but re this matter the dems own it lock, stock, and barrel.

gerard wrote:Now lets be real, when times were good, the market was going up, and home prices were making everyone rich on paper, who the hell was going to be listened to saying bad things were a comin' ?


I know a few guys. Here's one. And they laughed at him. Oh yeah, and he's running for Congress in Connecticut. :D

gerard
 
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