Looks like CNN is not drinking the Kool Aid anymore

Re: Looks like CNN is not drinking the Kool Aid anymore

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:58 pm

I knew the Ins. Co.s had a legal monopoly because they bought it from the house & senate fair & square except those crooks are long gone so they have to continue to pay the present crooks. I`ve said it before if you think they are spending over a mil. a day lobbying against H.C. so that you & I will have lower rates & better care, I have a historic bridge that I would like to sell you.
I could never figure out the baseball thing.
I can go you one better than B/C-B/S, I have UPMC Ins. that would be fine except how can hospitals own their a Ins. Co. & it not be a conflict of interests. UPMC is also in other countries.
samhill
 
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Re: Looks like CNN is not drinking the Kool Aid anymore

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:14 pm

jpete wrote:
samhill wrote:The only trouble is there is a collusion between all the so called competitors they just split up the territories & policy holders & all keep their prices close. There are a lot of claims about lower this & lower that but its all just smoke & mirrors.


That's the system we have NOW. Look up the 1945 McCarran Ferguson Act. The are TWO government protected monopolies in this country. Major League Baseball and health insurance. Don't you ask yourself why?


We have a law that cedes to the states the right to regulate the highly diverse and complex insurance business to protect state laws previously established for its citizens AND, to protect the smaller insurance companies of an under-regulated state from the behemoths of another state lacking regulatory reciprocity:

The act provides that the "business of insurance, and every person engaged therein, shall be subject to the laws of the several States which relate to the regulation or taxation of such business." Congress passed the McCarran-Ferguson Act primarily in response to the Supreme Court case of United States v. South-Eastern Underwriters Ass'n, 322 U.S. 533, 64 S. Ct. 1162, 88 L. Ed. 1440 (1944). Before the South-Eastern Under-writers case, the issuing of an insurance policy was not thought to be a transaction in commerce, which would subject the insurance industry to federal regulation under the COMMERCE CLAUSE. In South-Eastern Underwriters, the Court held that an insurance company that conducted substantial business across state lines was engaged in interstate commerce and thus was subject to federal antitrust regulations. Within a year of South-Eastern Underwriters, Congress enacted the McCarran-Ferguson Act in response to states' concerns that they no longer had broad authority to regulate the insurance industry in their boundaries.

The McCarran-Ferguson Act provides that state law shall govern the regulation of insurance and that no act of Congress shall invalidate any state law unless the federal law specifically relates to insurance. The act thus mandates that a federal law that does not specifically regulate the business of insurance will not PREEMPT a state law enacted for that purpose. A state law has the purpose of regulating the insurance industry if it has the "end, intention or aim of adjusting, managing, or controlling the business of insurance" (U.S. Dept. of Treasury v. Fabe, 508 U.S. 491, 113 S. Ct. 2202, 124 L. Ed. 2d 449 [1993]).

Read more: McCarran-Ferguson Act of (1945) http://law.jrank.org/pages/8497/McCarra ... z0gUtB4Z5O


The SCOTUS decision, preceding McCarran-Furguson, expanded what constituted "commerce" and as a result that would have upset the apple cart. This law preserved state regulatory business as usual. It formally ceded the right to regulate insurance to the states which was the status quo. The feds have the constitutional right to regulate commerce but not necessarily a duty to do so. It wasn't a conspiracy, though it may now be in the interest of the people to change the law to foster further competition.
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Re: Looks like CNN is not drinking the Kool Aid anymore

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:14 pm

McCarran Ferguson wasn't a conspiracy, but as with all government action, it had unintended consequences.

Because the feds said it wasn't regulated commerce, the insurance companies get together and collude on prices and policies. Neither will compete against each other And they pay the right people to keep it that way.

I'm not sure why the individual state insurance commissioners don't allow out of state companies in, maybe the companies don't try.

The 1974 HMO Act, now THAT was a conspiracy. ;)
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Re: Looks like CNN is not drinking the Kool Aid anymore

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:34 am

jpete wrote:Because the feds said it wasn't regulated commerce, the insurance companies get together and collude on prices and policies. Neither will compete against each other And they pay the right people to keep it that way.

I'm not sure why the individual state insurance commissioners don't allow out of state companies in, maybe the companies don't try.



The other issue with the insurance companies is that the core of their business is actuarial statistics and projections. Much of the information is difficult to collect. No single company has the resources to do it all. They rely on the government and on each other to share these data. Without McCarran they would have been colluding. The sharing of the data actually makes the insurance companies more "competitive" with each other when setting premiums. Samhill noted that collusion leads to price fixing. That is true. But this price fixing, with state oversight, leads to profits that are not out-of-line with other businesses because the better data leads to a greater certainty of probability in insuring events. That reduces company risk and makes premiums lower for all.

State governments have a considerable investment in their insurance oversight framework as do the companies in compliance. They have created varying degrees of complexity from state to state. To change the game at will would destabilize the insurance community. It could be done, and I believe will be done, but it must be done slowly.

I cannot comment on the HMO act of 1974. I don't know much about it.
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Re: Looks like CNN is not drinking the Kool Aid anymore

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:18 am

But if they share actuarial tables, then they share any error or bias in those tables. And accepting that this sharing exists, why is health insurance the only thing I can't buy across state lines? I currently have life insurance, long term disability insurance, car insurance, legal insurance.

All of it from out of state companies. And all at reasonable rates. But RI BC/BS is looking for a 12% increase and if I can't or won't pay it, I'm SOL.

Repealing McCarran Ferguson would go a long way toward fixing that.
jpete
 
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Re: Looks like CNN is not drinking the Kool Aid anymore

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:25 am

The way I was told is that its the states Ind. Comm.s that put in the restrictions so only certain Ins.Co.s would be able to sell in their states(now I wonder why they would do that). There are a lot of things that we blame the Fed. Gov. for not fixing that aren`t in their control.
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Re: Looks like CNN is not drinking the Kool Aid anymore

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:45 am

But that's the thing. The Federal government passed a law which protects this situation. So it is in their control. Just repeal the law and let the several states do as they will.
jpete
 
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Re: Looks like CNN is not drinking the Kool Aid anymore

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:03 pm

Well the H.C.debate is live on CNN now so you can watch & listen if you like.
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Re: Looks like CNN is not drinking the Kool Aid anymore

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:33 pm

I don't have all the answers jpete or samhill. I for one would like to see many impediments to trade lifted. The state of regulation in this country is ridiculous and it favors corporations and not the small entrepreneur or the consumer.

Simply put, government is more often the problem than the solution.
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Re: Looks like CNN is not drinking the Kool Aid anymore

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:27 pm

Government is ALWAYS the problem.
jpete
 
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Re: Looks like CNN is not drinking the Kool Aid anymore

PostBy: grumpy On: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:20 pm

This country is so screwed.
grumpy
 

Re: Looks like CNN is not drinking the Kool Aid anymore

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:48 pm

Not to take sides here but before the H.C.Summit was even started there were Republicans calling it a failure & just going to antagonize & not get anything done. That being said I watched it & I thought there were many good ideas brought up on both sides & at least a lot of discussion about common points, some seemed totally earnest & I only hope that many don`t let the few speak for them. As these men & women that have great health care are nit-picking over what methodology to use the country is getting worse. The Ins. Co.s are laughing & increasing their rates, I guess they figure the fix is in.
samhill
 
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Re: Looks like CNN is not drinking the Kool Aid anymore

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:56 pm

The fix IS in. Do you really think the government is going to abolish insurance companies?

They are going to get paid one way or the other. The government is going to suck the money out of us, skim off their part, funnel some to the insurance companies and the wheel will keep turning.

And over the years, the waits will go up, the service will go down, less people will be inclined to become doctors and we'll be too far down the road to change anything.
jpete
 
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Re: Looks like CNN is not drinking the Kool Aid anymore

PostBy: Dann757 On: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:05 pm

grumpy wrote:This country is so screwed.


You got that right!

Lets talk about another multi trillion dollar entitlement!

Barry the camera lover! I'm ready for my close-up Mr. DeMille!
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Re: Looks like CNN is not drinking the Kool Aid anymore

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:28 pm

What got me the most is when they would say we have the best health care in the world. Like most things the one that costs the most isn`t always the best. Being the only major country without U.H.C. they had the opportunity to study them all & mix or match the good parts & throw out the bad to come up with the best but that would be too easy & not make them enough money.
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