Baro Opinion Overload

 
User avatar
cybdav
Member
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat. Nov. 28, 2009 10:18 am
Location: Springfield TN

Post by cybdav » Thu. Mar. 04, 2010 10:59 pm

I have read and read until my eyes bleed. There is an endless amount of opinion on the need or lack thereof of baros on hand fired coal stoves. I understand both sides pretty well. ( I guess ).

Now I would like more opinion. As I draw near the end of my first year of coal burning with my Harman Mark III the only complaint I have is I have used a lot more coal than I thought I would. I will receive my 5th ton tomorrow. This is a new installation with double wall Duravent. With the stainless steel inner wall and straight shot through the roof, I have a very very good draft. I do have to keep it one to one and a quarter turns open to heat this high ceilinged drafty old house.

Will a baro, as well as its other benefits, help me reduce the amount of coal I am burning?


 
CapeCoaler
Member
Posts: 6515
Joined: Sun. Feb. 10, 2008 3:48 pm
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Post by CapeCoaler » Thu. Mar. 04, 2010 11:11 pm

Yes...
Most of the time...
But more specifics are requested...

 
User avatar
cybdav
Member
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat. Nov. 28, 2009 10:18 am
Location: Springfield TN

Post by cybdav » Thu. Mar. 04, 2010 11:50 pm

I guess I'm enough of an amateur that you will have to lead me a little more.

What information do I need to post?

 
User avatar
LsFarm
Member
Posts: 7383
Joined: Sun. Nov. 20, 2005 8:02 pm
Location: Michigan
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Post by LsFarm » Fri. Mar. 05, 2010 4:48 am

If you are tracking your coal use, you ought to be tracking your draft as well. Reducing and controling your draft will reduce your flue temps and therefore the stove heat going up the chimney. And therefore more heat from the coal will stay in the building, so you should be able to burn less coal to get the same heat.

There are lots of posts on the baro subject stating that they use less coal once the baro is installed.

So a baro and a manometer, keep track of the draft and coal use, and you should save coal.

Greg L

 
User avatar
lowfog01
Member
Posts: 3889
Joined: Sat. Dec. 20, 2008 8:33 am
Location: Springfield, VA
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Mark II & Mark I
Coal Size/Type: nut/pea

Post by lowfog01 » Fri. Mar. 05, 2010 5:14 am

Short answer - Yes, using a baro will save you coal. After my first year with a baro I found I had burned 1/4 ton less coal and that was as only for half of the heating season. This year, my first full season with a baro, I am burning even less coal and see a raise in the amount of heat I am keeping in the house and money I save via burning less coal.

Do you have any thermometers on your stoves? They can tell you a lot about how your stove is working. As Greg suggested keeping a log of how much coal you use, what the operating temperature of you stove is - on the stove front and on the pipe after the baro - can tell you a lot of about how your stove is running and the heat it's producing. I also keep a record of the outside temperature and the inside room temps. That information along with data on the stove's draft will help you maximize your stove's heat production. Lisa

 
User avatar
oliver power
Member
Posts: 2970
Joined: Sun. Apr. 16, 2006 9:28 am
Location: Near Dansville, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-2310), D.S. 1600 Circulator, Hitzer 254

Post by oliver power » Fri. Mar. 05, 2010 7:46 am

All in all, it doesn't hurt anything to install a baro damper in any coal stove. Is it needed?? yes and no. A lot of factors come into play, including stove design. For example; a hopper fed stove requires more draft than a non hopper fed stove. That's because the chimney draft has to draw the gasses around the hopper, then up the chimney (I'm talking natural draft stoves, with internal hoppers, not stokers). Because of this, the gasses take a longer path to the exaust pipe, rubbing more surface area before leaving the stove. This allows more heat to be absorbed into the metal, and radiated out into the living quarters. Another example; I have a HITZER 50-93 (hopper fed). My uncle has a Mark-III (no hopper). We live about 400 feet from each other. We both have very strong drafting chimneys. Neither one of us have baro dampers in our stoves. His stack temperature runs 100*+ higher than mine does. We go through the same amount of coal each year. Yet, I'm heating more than double the square footage. My house may be better insulated than his but, my point is, he has a lot more heat going up the chimney. He should have a baro damper. I see you have a Mark-III. Yes, put in a baro damper. If my HITZER stack temp is running about 175* - 200*, His Mark-III would be about 300* - 325*.

 
User avatar
freetown fred
Member
Posts: 30293
Joined: Thu. Dec. 31, 2009 12:33 pm
Location: Freetown,NY 13803
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut

Post by freetown fred » Fri. Mar. 05, 2010 8:05 am

I,like oliver have a hitzer 50-93--no baro--had a friend with same stove a couple hills over that put a baro in & ended up wireing it open--it did not work for his situation--now you've got someone w/a Mark II that is having good results--I think there's alot of trial & error depending on your specific situation--stoves are like a good woman,find out what makes her happy :blah: I'm heating about 2500 sq. & will make it on the 3 ton of nut I got in the early Fall--I'm a happy camper :cheers:


 
User avatar
jpete
Member
Posts: 10829
Joined: Thu. Nov. 22, 2007 9:52 am
Location: Warwick, RI
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Post by jpete » Fri. Mar. 05, 2010 8:15 am

Just my story on baro dampers and heat lost up the chimney. With my Mark I running normally(75-80* in the room) I can put my hand on the stove pipe after the damper and keep it there as long as I want.

If you can't do that, you are sending a lot of heat up the chimney. I've had this stove in two different houses. Without any sort of damper, I used two ton of coal. Then I got a hand damper and cut that down to 1.5 ton.

This year with the baro damper, I'll use just a hair over 1 ton. And I'm heating 700sf more in this house than I was in the first house.

 
GeorgiePorgie
Member
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue. Dec. 09, 2008 8:44 pm

Post by GeorgiePorgie » Fri. Mar. 05, 2010 8:51 am

cybdav wrote:I have read and read until my eyes bleed. There is an endless amount of opinion on the need or lack thereof of baros on hand fired coal stoves. I understand both sides pretty well. ( I guess ).

Now I would like more opinion. As I draw near the end of my first year of coal burning with my Harman Mark III the only complaint I have is I have used a lot more coal than I thought I would. I will receive my 5th ton tomorrow. This is a new installation with double wall Duravent. With the stainless steel inner wall and straight shot through the roof, I have a very very good draft. I do have to keep it one to one and a quarter turns open to heat this high ceilinged drafty old house.

Will a baro, as well as its other benefits, help me reduce the amount of coal I am burning?
I understand how much you love your mark III stove, a friend of mine had one for years, and it worked flawlessly, I never thought anyone can convince him to git rid of it, but I did, and he bought an Alaska Stoker stove, we had it hooked up initially with a CoalPilot controller and a 5/2 digital programmable thermostat, it was night a day difference, then we went a step further, since he uses it at his restaurant, he is open Mon-Sat, closed on Sunday, with Mon Wed opening late, I found a 7 days Programmable Hunter Thermostat on eBay, it worked like a charm; now we have it set at 64 when he is away, and 78 when he is open, these temperatures may seem high , but the thermostat is only within 4 feet, if you want to save coal, that's one nice option !

The Barometer/Damper has its benefits, but only in consistently high wind area, if you have a high ceiling , think of the following solution, but please keep an open mind and think about my explanations:

Do not use double sided vents inside the house, and eliminate the possibility of any damper.

Explanation: Dampers ( if installed properly ) are supposed to exchange hot gases escaping from your stove to the outside world, by letting room temperature air go out the vent instead.

By eliminating the damper, any hot gas quantity trying to escape, will heat your vent pipe, and as I mention, since you have a high ceiling, all the heat from your hot gas will be absorbed by the vent pipe and radiated back inside the house. It's extra expense to use double pipe, on top of that getting a damper as well.

 
User avatar
SMITTY
Member
Posts: 12520
Joined: Sun. Dec. 11, 2005 12:43 pm
Location: West-Central Mass
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 Highboy
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Post by SMITTY » Fri. Mar. 05, 2010 9:01 am

Buy a Dwyer model 25 & hook it up permanently, & grab a baro. With the manometer you'll be able to set the baro where it needs to be. Harman recommends .06" minimum draft -- I have mine set at .04", but it will pull an occasional .06" in the wind. Doesn't take much wind at all to pull excessive draft.

I just replaced a crappy 14 year old baro on my oil boiler. Since the stove vents into the same flue, I set it for the stove. It's a Field Controls Type M baro -- about as good as it gets. I notice the variations in draft are much less with this installed vs. the crappy one.

Dwyer Model 25:
Type M:

 
User avatar
cybdav
Member
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat. Nov. 28, 2009 10:18 am
Location: Springfield TN

Post by cybdav » Fri. Mar. 05, 2010 9:22 am

I wish I had a forum like this for all problems in life. You guys are something else.

After 35 years of marriage I still don't know when to shut up for my own good. Anyone found a good technique for this. :bang:

 
titleist1
Member
Posts: 5226
Joined: Wed. Nov. 14, 2007 4:06 pm

Post by titleist1 » Fri. Mar. 05, 2010 9:31 am

I only talk to the dog, works for me! :D

 
User avatar
spiker
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed. Jan. 27, 2010 9:48 am
Location: Westerly, RI

Post by spiker » Fri. Mar. 05, 2010 10:55 am

I have only had my baro installed for a few days, so I can't speak for the efficiency part yet. But I do believe it helped compensate for my own stupidity. I left the ash door open this morning and went to work. I remembered in time to keep the stove from way over-heating, but it was at 750 F in an hour before I went home to check it. The baro was mostly wide open, compensating for the draft generated by the hot exhaust. Without the baro, the draft would have been much higher and the stove running that much hotter. Since hand-fed stoves have few automatic features, adding a barometric damper provides some unattended regulation to the burn.

 
User avatar
Chuck_Steak
Member
Posts: 386
Joined: Wed. Jan. 06, 2010 9:03 pm
Location: New Hampster
Coal Size/Type: mostly nut, sometimes stove, Santa brand

Post by Chuck_Steak » Fri. Mar. 05, 2010 11:47 am

cybdav wrote: Will a baro, as well as its other benefits, help me reduce the amount of coal I am burning?
This is a topic that you have to look at all the data, and decide for yourself.
Because there are as many opinions as there are stoves..

I am not personally a believer in the thought that you "have" to go out and get a baro.
I would get a manometer first. If you don't know what your draft looks like,
then it's difficult to say you need one.
If you then decide you need a baro, you already have the mano to set it!
In "my" particular install, my draft is consistently .05-.07.
We had an extremely bad wind storm last week, that knocked power out to 300,000 customers.
My mano would only bounce momentarily to .10. then return to the normal.
This is nothing to get excited about.
Unless you have a constant flux, monentary spikes of up to .12 are not an issue.
I use a manual damper, as do a lot of folks.
Others hate them.
Once you find where it wants to be, it's pretty much there for the winter. Mark your pipe.
You have to adjust it on warmer rainy days, that's about it.
Everyone can't have that situation. Agreed. But until you check your draft, you won't know.
At first I had a leak near my cleanout door, and the draft was always around .03
Never would have known had I not got the mano.

As for checking your stovepipe temp with your hand, that isn't very accurate.
For one thing you need to factor how hot your stove is.
I run mine at around 550-600 when it's really cold, your stove pipe is going to be hotter
at that temp than if it's running at 350 for example.

When you read that stove manufacturers say you must use one, check to
see if they sell Baro dampers as an option.
That may have something to do with it!
Harman does not sell them, and they also do not say you must use one..
Again contrary to what some think.

I have a house built in 1895, needless to say it is no Energy star home.
heating the basement and first floor. I'm using 1 50# bag of nut a day.
Maybe 60-65# when it's in the single numbers.
Obviously, your mileage may vary :roll:

 
User avatar
freetown fred
Member
Posts: 30293
Joined: Thu. Dec. 31, 2009 12:33 pm
Location: Freetown,NY 13803
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut

Post by freetown fred » Fri. Mar. 05, 2010 12:09 pm

concerning talking to wife situation---ME TOO---I have 2 dogs :lol:


Post Reply

Return to “Hand Fired Coal Stoves & Furnaces Using Anthracite”